View Poll Results: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

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Thread: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

  1. #111
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Things like voluntary servitude.

    Indentured servant, Prisoner, etc...
    slavery......is not voluntary servitude or indentured servitude or prison labor.

    now, do you believe that African slavery was not a racist institution, because some slave-owners didn't consider black Africans to even be human?
    Last edited by Thunder; 06-26-12 at 10:42 AM.

  2. #112
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So there are Libertarians who are for personal freedoms... just not for certain people?
    Part of what made the attitudes surrounding slavery so sinister is that your sentence does not parse.

    We are discussing founding fathers that could be identified as holding libertarian-like ideals... aka "classic liberal" ideas... and yet also had slaves. But you could not say they supported personal freedoms for only certain people, they favored them for all people... of course, the notion that the slaves working in plantations in Virginia were actually people would have been met with much derision and / or scepticism at that time.



    Restrictive personhood, responsible for / involved in every major human rights abuse since ever. "Those folks don't count, so we may do x, y, z to them."



    We should do what we can to remedy inconsistencies between our nation's status quo and our nation's mission statement, the Declaration of Independence. Certainly, it's a paradox that even that document's author owned slaves, and it required remedy. Unfortunately, that remedy came through war and coercive force. Hopefully we can end other human rights abuses without such things, but the practice of restrictive personhood continues in other regards and it also requires remedy.
    Last edited by JayDubya; 06-26-12 at 11:13 AM.

  3. #113
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    slavery......is not voluntary servitude or indentured servitude or prison labor.
    Wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    now, do you believe that African slavery was not a racist institution, because some slave-owners didn't consider black Africans to even be human?
    That is a question that you need to ask the Africans that sold there own kind into bondage in the first place. Under that guise, I would have to say it wasn't.

    But it is a question you can also ask of modern day African's who engage in the practice.
    Last edited by Excon; 06-26-12 at 11:10 AM.

  4. #114
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Wrong....
    voluntary servitude is not slavery, as it is voluntary.

    indentured servitude is not slavery, as it is part of a signed contract signed by the servant.

    prison labor is not slavery, as their labor is part of their punishment for committing crimes.

    now, as to the European slave-trade, they made slaves out of black Africans because they believed they were inferior human beings, which is of course a racist idea.

  5. #115
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    wow, that is the dumbest thing I have ever read. anyone that thinks a person is non-human based on skin pigmentation is a textbook racist.
    A correction, just because your sentence doesn't parse.

    What you meant to say, no doubt, is that "anyone who thinks that a human is not a person based on skin pigmentation is a textbook racist." And that is agreeable, yes.

    However, you can go beyond that...

    Anyone who thinks that any human is not a person based on anything is some kind of bigot, and this belief belies that they either do not believe in equality - do not consider all men to be created equal - or they are a hypocrite for whatever reason.

  6. #116
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    A correction, just because your sentence doesn't parse.

    What you meant to say, no doubt, is that "anyone who thinks that a human is not a person based on skin pigmentation is a textbook racist." And that is agreeable, yes....
    indeed, believing that someone is not a human being simply due to their color & origin, is the height of racism.

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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    indeed, believing that someone is not a human being simply due to their color & origin, is the height of racism.
    Yes. And anyone who thinks that any human is not (or should not be) a person based on anything is some kind of bigot.

  8. #118
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    voluntary servitude is not slavery, as it is voluntary.

    indentured servitude is not slavery, as it is part of a signed contract signed by the servant.
    A slave is a slave regardless of how they got there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    prison labor is not slavery, as their labor is part of their punishment for committing crimes.
    This is debatable.
    Separation from society is the punishment.
    Labor is not part of the deal.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    now, as to the European slave-trade, they made slaves out of black Africans because they believed they were inferior human beings, which is of course a racist idea.
    No.

    Slaves were purchased because they were cheap labor.
    Not because they were thought of as inferior.
    Thinking they were inferior was just part of the package.
    The same held true with the Irish slaves and the Chinese Slaves. Cheap labor.

    But that may be why they were sold to begin with by their own kind.
    But not why they were bought.

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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    A slave is a slave regardless of how they got there...
    wrong.

    ...Slaves were purchased because they were cheap labor.
    Not because they were thought of as inferior....
    wrong again, as we are talking about black African slaves.

    and didn't you earlier argue that the African slave-trade wasn't racist as the Europeans didn't even consider them to be human?
    Last edited by Thunder; 06-26-12 at 11:24 AM.

  10. #120
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    Re: Can you be a slave owner and a libertarian at the same time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    indeed, believing that someone is not a human being simply due to their color & origin, is the height of racism.
    No it is not.

    Racism does not come into play at that time.

    If they did not believe they were human, race can not factor in.
    Race can only be a factor when they are considered human.
    Last edited by Excon; 06-26-12 at 11:26 AM.

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