View Poll Results: Should government exist... at all?

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  • Yes

    44 86.27%
  • No

    7 13.73%
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Thread: Should government exist... at all?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should government exist... at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    What problem is unable to be solved?
    The "men with guns" problem, where the man with the men with guns (spears, swords, drones) imposes tyranny upon those who don't.

    That was the model that preceded ours.

    To answer the poll: Until we outgrow the need for government, no.

    I co sider myself a "practical anarchist". "Without a king" is what should be striven towards. Its not realistic at this point, but that doesn't mean it ahouldnt be the goal.

    Many people are followers. Most, probably. They are simply more comfortable being directed.

    Took me a LONG time to get my head around that.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  2. #52
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    Re: Should government exist... at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Dang it, my evil plot has been foiled!
    Carry on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    What problem is unable to be solved?
    Human nature.

    I find it interesting that everybody is letting you pin them down, but not asking the same in return. How about you? What, specifically, do YOU think?

    For the record: As you are asking so many questions... ... incomplete opinions are acceptable. This is a discussion forum, not a final policy board.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  3. #53
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    Re: Should government exist... at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Carry on.



    Human nature.

    I find it interesting that everybody is letting you pin them down, but not asking the same in return. How about you? What, specifically, do YOU think?

    For the record: As you are asking so many questions... ... incomplete opinions are acceptable. This is a discussion forum, not a final policy board.
    For my own part, I can't imagine any problem that requires for its solution the initiation of aggression against others. Naturally, there will always be those who choose to initiate aggression against others, so there will always be a need for people to be able to defend themselves, either directly or through an agent. Barring a single world government, there will always be groups of people who are in a state of anarchy with one another.

  4. #54
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    Re: Should government exist... at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    For my own part, I can't imagine any problem that requires for its solution the initiation of aggression against others. Naturally, there will always be those who choose to initiate aggression against others, so there will always be a need for people to be able to defend themselves, either directly or through an agent. Barring a single world government, there will always be groups of people who are in a state of anarchy with one another.
    I'm not sure I follow when you say "state of anarchy with one another" when referring to different nations. (Ok, as I typed more, I realized I think I know what you mean, and the UN is an attempt at addressing that. [Note that I did not say successful attempt.])

    As far as your other point, I don't buy into the notion that government is necessarily a form of aggression. It can be, especially when using places like North Korea as an extreme example, but I don't see it as automatically so. To me, that's just libertarian talking points and denial of reality, and is the reason libertarian philosophy and the Libertarian Party will always be marginalized. It sounds good, it looks good on paper, then swoosh!... back to the real world where real life humans with their wide varieties of real foibles, and degrees of individual selfishness, and competing self-interests reign... and the talking points ring hollow.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  5. #55
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    Re: Should government exist... at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I'm not sure I follow when you say "state of anarchy with one another" when referring to different nations. (Ok, as I typed more, I realized I think I know what you mean, and the UN is an attempt at addressing that. [Note that I did not say successful attempt.])
    Yes, that was my point exactly.

    As far as your other point, I don't buy into the notion that government is necessarily a form of aggression. It can be, especially when using places like North Korea as an extreme example, but I don't see it as automatically so.
    I suppose it doesn't have to be a form of aggression, and if that were the case I would have no issues with it at all.

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    Re: Should government exist... at all?

    It depends what you mean by government, should we have some sort of institutions to take care of common problems, absolutely.

    Should there be an institution who's power is innate? No (be it government or private property).

    I consider myself a philisophical anarchist, ALL sort of power must be justifiable.

    But then why would an anarchist oppose privitization? Because handing power form accountably governments to unaccountable corporations makes things worse.

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    Re: Should government exist... at all?

    About this whole aggression thing, the whole concept of private property beyond possession is based on the threat of violence, you claim that peice of land over their is yours, (out of your direct possession), the only thing making it yours is the fact that you have cops with guns that will shot me if I do on that land, its a system based on violence.

    Without that theat of state violence, that sort of property would be subject to the community at large.

  8. #58
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    Re: Should government exist... at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Should government exist... at all?
    It doesn't matter if it "should exist" or not. It is the nature of humans to make a government. There has always been some form of government and there will always be some form of government.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Should government exist... at all?

    Given a small enough community, you could probably get by without a government. But that isn't the world we live in.

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    Re: Should government exist... at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    Given a small enough community, you could probably get by without a government. But that isn't the world we live in.
    ...zactly...to me it seems a matter of scale.

    Four neighbors could come to a consensus and decide to pool resources and labor to make a road to the general store, 40 could even pull it off...but I cannot see 40,000 managing to do so.

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