Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

Truancy and tardiness - the response of which is defined by rules (the punishment / consequences - if you will). The very essence of this thread centers around the appropriate or necessary response to breaking the rules.

Is it not? Indeed - it is.

You might be trying to focus it down on the 'concept' or the 'ideology' of school - the school of school (if we want to get philosophical about it) - but the 'school of school' is that rules, constraints, restrictions, limitations and regulations are put in place to enable - as best as possible - a solid, learning environment.

I'm not just tring to engage you on your views - I'm trying to relate your views, and my views - back to the OP.

Aunt Spiker said:

Truancy and tardiness - the response of which is defined by rules (the punishment / consequences - if you will). The very essence of this thread centers around the appropriate or necessary response to breaking the rules.

Is it not? Indeed - it is.

You might be trying to focus it down on the 'concept' or the 'ideology' of school - the school of school (if we want to get philosophical about it) - but the 'school of school' is that rules, constraints, restrictions, limitations and regulations are put in place to enable - as best as possible - a solid, learning environment.

I'm not just tring to engage you on your views - I'm trying to relate your views, and my views - back to the OP.

Click to expand...

You don't understand what I'm saying. I understand the rules, constraint, restrictions, limitations and regulations. But I don't understand the rules of authority.

Here, watch this video and you'll understand what I'm talking about

marcus903 said:

You don't understand what I'm saying. I understand the rules, constraint, restrictions, limitations and regulations. But I don't understand the rules of authority.

Here, watch this video and you'll understand what I'm talking about

Click to expand...

Rules of authority: Right now, the teacher is the authority, at least in the classroom. At home, no doubt your parents are the authority. One day, you will enter the world of work, and find that the boss is the authority.

Authority doesn't depend on whether you like the person in charge, or even if he is right.

That is the rule of authority.

One day, you will retire, and then you can do pretty much as you please. No more boss, no more parents, teachers, administrators.

Dittohead not! said:

Rules of authority: Right now, the teacher is the authority, at least in the classroom. At home, no doubt your parents are the authority. One day, you will enter the world of work, and find that the boss is the authority.

Authority doesn't depend on whether you like the person in charge, or even if he is right.

That is the rule of authority.

One day, you will retire, and then you can do pretty much as you please. No more boss, no more parents, teachers, administrators.

Click to expand...

And even if you become POTUS, in theory the law will have authority over you, even if no person does directly.

marcus903 said:

You don't understand what I'm saying. I understand the rules, constraint, restrictions, limitations and regulations. But I don't understand the rules of authority.

Here, watch this video and you'll understand what I'm talking about

Click to expand...

The rules of authority -as you're referring to - can be addressed by the term 'savior faire' = the ability to understand and exhibit appropriate behavior at an appropriate time. Everything has a time and a place.

Remember the scene from Saving Private Ryan where they're walking through the field together - they're complaining to the Captain. He, however, is not complaining to them. They ask why - he says 'Chain of command . . . thing go up. . . you complain to me and I in turn complain to my superiors. So on - so forth"

You complain - or tell - or comment *to* the person who is in *your* chain of 'command' (figuratively speaking)

A child's chain of command = 1) parent, 2) principle, 3) vice principle.

Children do have recourse and a path to take, people to go to, when their teacher 'does something wrong.' The MAIN reason why children are discouraged from correcting a teacher is because (imagine children and how they are in general) it would quickly lead to discourse and kids back-talking, arguing and over all just disrupting class.

You're imagining that most children have a strong sense of right and wrong behavior and have tact, etc - but most kids don't. Most kids would love the idea of being able to just say whatever - at what ever moment - but if we permitted that it would just spiral out of control rather quickly.

Teachers are to be seen as an authoritarian in the classroom.

The parents, principle and vice principle are the ones who are on the level in which to discuss concerns and issues and debate topics of behavior, etc.

Would you - being a teen - want a younger child correcting your behavior and trying to keep you on track? Or would you prefer at least a peer like a friend - or your teachers / parents do so?

Authority is from the top-down . . . not the bottom-up.

Now - there are very different levels of 'discussion' to be had - surely if a teacher makes a simple mistake or forgets to do something the whole class is open to remind, correct or prompt . . . sometimes education is an open and welcomed class effort. But beyond mutual educational reasons there should be less of this - for serious issues another adult should always become involved first.