View Poll Results: should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

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Thread: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

  1. #121
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Hmm (response to your edit in the previous post of yours) - actually, Marcus - I have four children. My oldest is autistic. My 2nd son has serious behavior problems; theft, attitude and attention seeking. He has been suspended and scrutinized for cheating and stealing for many years. Our daughter suffers from a charming sense of overbloated self worth; she's as cocky as they get and that has caused herself many issues and our youngest is a normal kid - in K last year he found himself in the principles office more than once.

    But, yes, they all make good grades - even our autistic child has excelled. In the last two years our 2nd child who has caused more trouble than you can likely imagine has matured and come to accept that there are consequences and dire punishment for all his actions.

    All in all; they still thoroughly enjoy school. Being troublesome at times - they still benefit greatly from it.

    It is our goal that they grow into balanced and mature adults - no matter how much of a struggle it is between now and then.

    Why?

    They have no choice.

    Life is much more than friends being mean on the playground and sweets hiding in the teacher's desk.

    See = we're very active and involved parents . . .what's worse: dealing with some mediocre school authority - - or dealing with me right when they get home from school?

    yeah - the less trouble they cause at school the better off their nights and weekends are. I'm avid about denying the joys in life - if they want freedom, fun and enjoyment they need to behave properly. They're too young and immature to make these decisions for theirselves . . . I'm Mom - they're my rules and they will be followed.

    Follow the rules and life is full of fun, late nights, movies, video games and parents who are proud, happy and content with said children.

    Adding: Do I sound like a prison warden? Well good. Because one thing I had to learn in life the hard way is that actions have lifelong consequences. I have children because when I was a teen I defied my parents, authority and common sense and ended up pregnant. My adult life has been full of lessons I should have learned by the age of 14. Actions have consquence - life can suck.

    No - life is not full of freedom.

    Adults have bills to pay, responsibilities to see to no matter WHAT. My children still must be fed, clothed and cleaned. I cannot just slack on life lest these essentials in *their* lives go undone. This was a lesson that took me several parenting-years to learn. My husband works not because he enjoys his job or really wants to - but because we have a family we must provide for.

    Adulthood isn't unbound freedom. Adulthood is the epitomy of self-reliance. Tehre will be no Mommy and Daddy to correct you when you're wrong and guide you when your adult life gets rough and complicated.

    You must get yourself up in the morning.
    You must get to work on time.
    You must take care of your own health and your own teeth.

    If you break the rules = you can go to jail. . . far different than heading off to in school suspension.

    Life gets harder as you age - you must become more independent and self-reliant . . . there's no time-out and no class bell to keep you on task.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 06-22-12 at 11:27 AM.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Hmm (response to your edit in the previous post of yours) - actually, Marcus - I have four children. My oldest is autistic. My 2nd son has serious behavior problems; theft, attitude and attention seeking. He has been suspended and scrutinized for cheating and stealing for many years. Our daughter suffers from a charming sense of overbloated self worth; she's as cocky as they get and that has caused herself many issues and our youngest is a normal kid - in K last year he found himself in the principles office more than once.

    But, yes, they all make good grades - even our autistic child has excelled. In the last two years our 2nd child who has caused more trouble than you can likely imagine has matured and come to accept that there are consequences and dire punishment for all his actions.

    All in all; they still thoroughly enjoy school. Being troublesome at times - they still benefit greatly from it.

    It is our goal that they grow into balanced and mature adults - no matter how much of a struggle it is between now and then.

    Why?

    They have no choice.

    Life is much more than friends being mean on the playground and sweets hiding in the teacher's desk.

    See = we're very active and involved parents . . .what's worse: dealing with some mediocre school authority - - or dealing with me right when they get home from school?

    yeah - the less trouble they cause at school the better off their nights and weekends are. I'm avid about denying the joys in life - if they want freedom, fun and enjoyment they need to behave properly. They're too young and immature to make these decisions for theirselves . . . I'm Mom - they're my rules and they will be followed.

    Follow the rules and life is full of fun, late nights, movies, video games and parents who are proud, happy and content with said children.

    Adding: Do I sound like a prison warden? Well good. Because one thing I had to learn in life the hard way is that actions have lifelong consequences. I have children because when I was a teen I defied my parents, authority and common sense and ended up pregnant. My adult life has been full of lessons I should have learned by the age of 14. Actions have consquence - life can suck.

    No - life is not full of freedom.

    Adults have bills to pay, responsibilities to see to no matter WHAT. My children still must be fed, clothed and cleaned. I cannot just slack on life lest these essentials in *their* lives go undone. This was a lesson that took me several parenting-years to learn. My husband works not because he enjoys his job or really wants to - but because we have a family we must provide for.

    Adulthood isn't unbound freedom. Adulthood is the epitomy of self-reliance. Tehre will be no Mommy and Daddy to correct you when you're wrong and guide you when your adult life gets rough and complicated.

    You must get yourself up in the morning.
    You must get to work on time.
    You must take care of your own health and your own teeth.

    If you break the rules = you can go to jail. . . far different than heading off to in school suspension.

    Life gets harder as you age - you must become more independent and self-reliant . . . there's no time-out and no class bell to keep you on task.
    An excellent read...
    I'd nominate you for "mom of the year".

  3. #123
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by marcus903 View Post
    Do you think students should be penalized for truancy/tardiness?
    Well, in the real world, they come in late or miss work, they get fired. I agree suspension is not the right way to get that concept into their little brains. But there needs to be consequences.

    Either no participation in any fun 'events' the school has, or perhaps a bit of caining or something that will sink the message in.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  4. #124
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post

    It is our goal that they grow into balanced and mature adults - no matter how much of a struggle it is between now and then.

    Why?

    They have no choice.

    Life is much more than friends being mean on the playground and sweets hiding in the teacher's desk.

    See = we're very active and involved parents . . .what's worse: dealing with some mediocre school authority - - or dealing with me right when they get home from school?

    yeah - the less trouble they cause at school the better off their nights and weekends are. I'm avid about denying the joys in life - if they want freedom, fun and enjoyment they need to behave properly. They're too young and immature to make these decisions for theirselves . . . I'm Mom - they're my rules and they will be followed.

    Follow the rules and life is full of fun, late nights, movies, video games and parents who are proud, happy and content with said children.

    Adding: Do I sound like a prison warden? Well good. Because one thing I had to learn in life the hard way is that actions have lifelong consequences. I have children because when I was a teen I defied my parents, authority and common sense and ended up pregnant. My adult life has been full of lessons I should have learned by the age of 14. Actions have consquence - life can suck.

    No - life is not full of freedom.

    Adults have bills to pay, responsibilities to see to no matter WHAT. My children still must be fed, clothed and cleaned. I cannot just slack on life lest these essentials in *their* lives go undone. This was a lesson that took me several parenting-years to learn. My husband works not because he enjoys his job or really wants to - but because we have a family we must provide for.

    Adulthood isn't unbound freedom. Adulthood is the epitomy of self-reliance. Tehre will be no Mommy and Daddy to correct you when you're wrong and guide you when your adult life gets rough and complicated.

    You must get yourself up in the morning.
    You must get to work on time.
    You must take care of your own health and your own teeth.

    If you break the rules = you can go to jail. . . far different than heading off to in school suspension.

    Life gets harder as you age - you must become more independent and self-reliant . . . there's no time-out and no class bell to keep you on task.
    All well said.

    As I have often repeated to mine, life is not easy, life is not fair. Your boss doesn't care if you feel a bit tired or don't feel like doing anything on any given day. Words do not hurt you, your response to them does. Most people don't know you and don't care about you or your silly problems, get over it.

    Someday some of that might sink in.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  5. #125
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Hmm (response to your edit in the previous post of yours) - actually, Marcus - I have four children. My oldest is autistic. My 2nd son has serious behavior problems; theft, attitude and attention seeking. He has been suspended and scrutinized for cheating and stealing for many years. Our daughter suffers from a charming sense of overbloated self worth; she's as cocky as they get and that has caused herself many issues and our youngest is a normal kid - in K last year he found himself in the principles office more than once.

    But, yes, they all make good grades - even our autistic child has excelled. In the last two years our 2nd child who has caused more trouble than you can likely imagine has matured and come to accept that there are consequences and dire punishment for all his actions.

    All in all; they still thoroughly enjoy school. Being troublesome at times - they still benefit greatly from it.

    It is our goal that they grow into balanced and mature adults - no matter how much of a struggle it is between now and then.

    Why?

    They have no choice.

    Life is much more than friends being mean on the playground and sweets hiding in the teacher's desk.

    See = we're very active and involved parents . . .what's worse: dealing with some mediocre school authority - - or dealing with me right when they get home from school?

    yeah - the less trouble they cause at school the better off their nights and weekends are. I'm avid about denying the joys in life - if they want freedom, fun and enjoyment they need to behave properly. They're too young and immature to make these decisions for theirselves . . . I'm Mom - they're my rules and they will be followed.

    Follow the rules and life is full of fun, late nights, movies, video games and parents who are proud, happy and content with said children.

    Adding: Do I sound like a prison warden? Well good. Because one thing I had to learn in life the hard way is that actions have lifelong consequences. I have children because when I was a teen I defied my parents, authority and common sense and ended up pregnant. My adult life has been full of lessons I should have learned by the age of 14. Actions have consquence - life can suck.

    No - life is not full of freedom.

    Adults have bills to pay, responsibilities to see to no matter WHAT. My children still must be fed, clothed and cleaned. I cannot just slack on life lest these essentials in *their* lives go undone. This was a lesson that took me several parenting-years to learn. My husband works not because he enjoys his job or really wants to - but because we have a family we must provide for.

    Adulthood isn't unbound freedom. Adulthood is the epitomy of self-reliance. Tehre will be no Mommy and Daddy to correct you when you're wrong and guide you when your adult life gets rough and complicated.

    You must get yourself up in the morning.
    You must get to work on time.
    You must take care of your own health and your own teeth.

    If you break the rules = you can go to jail. . . far different than heading off to in school suspension.

    Life gets harder as you age - you must become more independent and self-reliant . . . there's no time-out and no class bell to keep you on task.
    This is one reason why I didn't want to explain what I meant by why I think kids 'hate' school. This person doesn't seem to get what 'I don't have an issue with the rules' mean. In fact, this person actually thought I explained how students with disorders actually have behavioral issues. Being 'autistic' doesn't stop you from having good grades. I just said it was a possibility.

    Secondly, did I mention that I'm autistic myself? My autism actually affects my behavior and academic progress. Whenever I am focused on my imagination, I am known to chew my shirts, putting holes in it and causing others to question the problem. I also enjoy sitting on the floor for comfort and relaxation (both at school AND in public). Because I am focused on my imagination and NOT my schoolwork; I currently have a 2.1 GPA for the second mark period, a 2.3 for the second semester and a 2.2 Cumulative.

    But be aware that I do have 12 credits. But most students at my school only have 11. So, I'm one-step above than my classmates.

    I also have a cognitive disorder, in which information enters my brain and exits right back out.

    Not only that, I had ADHD, which causes me to rush through my work.

    Let me give a list of my grades this quarter to show you how my disabilities is affecting my work:
    Chemistry - B (Exam - N/A)
    English 10 - C (Exam - B)
    Fit For Life 1 - C (Exam - U)
    Geometry - C (Exam - U)
    Skill Streaming - B (Resource Period - Exam doesn't count)
    United States Hisory - C (Exam - U)

    Don't give me the dumb assumption 'thees rn't bcuse uf ur disubilitie, u just makeng up excooses' because I'm pretty sure there are several students who also have disabilities that effects their work.

    U = No Credit

    Even though I failed 3 exams, I have more credits than most of my classmates and have been promoted to the next grade. Don't think by 'exams' I mean 'classes'. Because believe it or not, I've passed ALL of the classes I had this year and the previous year.

    Again, the 'rules' at my school isn't a problem.
    Last edited by marcus903; 06-22-12 at 06:54 PM.

  6. #126
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Truancy and tardiness - the response of which is defined by rules (the punishment / consequences - if you will). The very essence of this thread centers around the appropriate or necessary response to breaking the rules.

    Is it not? Indeed - it is.

    You might be trying to focus it down on the 'concept' or the 'ideology' of school - the school of school (if we want to get philosophical about it) - but the 'school of school' is that rules, constraints, restrictions, limitations and regulations are put in place to enable - as best as possible - a solid, learning environment.

    I'm not just tring to engage you on your views - I'm trying to relate your views, and my views - back to the OP.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 06-22-12 at 08:35 PM.
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  7. #127
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Truancy and tardiness - the response of which is defined by rules (the punishment / consequences - if you will). The very essence of this thread centers around the appropriate or necessary response to breaking the rules.

    Is it not? Indeed - it is.

    You might be trying to focus it down on the 'concept' or the 'ideology' of school - the school of school (if we want to get philosophical about it) - but the 'school of school' is that rules, constraints, restrictions, limitations and regulations are put in place to enable - as best as possible - a solid, learning environment.

    I'm not just tring to engage you on your views - I'm trying to relate your views, and my views - back to the OP.
    You don't understand what I'm saying. I understand the rules, constraint, restrictions, limitations and regulations. But I don't understand the rules of authority.

    Here, watch this video and you'll understand what I'm talking about

  8. #128
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by marcus903 View Post
    You don't understand what I'm saying. I understand the rules, constraint, restrictions, limitations and regulations. But I don't understand the rules of authority.

    Here, watch this video and you'll understand what I'm talking about
    Rules of authority: Right now, the teacher is the authority, at least in the classroom. At home, no doubt your parents are the authority. One day, you will enter the world of work, and find that the boss is the authority.

    Authority doesn't depend on whether you like the person in charge, or even if he is right.

    That is the rule of authority.

    One day, you will retire, and then you can do pretty much as you please. No more boss, no more parents, teachers, administrators.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  9. #129
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Rules of authority: Right now, the teacher is the authority, at least in the classroom. At home, no doubt your parents are the authority. One day, you will enter the world of work, and find that the boss is the authority.

    Authority doesn't depend on whether you like the person in charge, or even if he is right.

    That is the rule of authority.

    One day, you will retire, and then you can do pretty much as you please. No more boss, no more parents, teachers, administrators.
    And even if you become POTUS, in theory the law will have authority over you, even if no person does directly.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  10. #130
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by marcus903 View Post
    You don't understand what I'm saying. I understand the rules, constraint, restrictions, limitations and regulations. But I don't understand the rules of authority.

    Here, watch this video and you'll understand what I'm talking about
    The rules of authority -as you're referring to - can be addressed by the term 'savior faire' = the ability to understand and exhibit appropriate behavior at an appropriate time. Everything has a time and a place.

    Remember the scene from Saving Private Ryan where they're walking through the field together - they're complaining to the Captain. He, however, is not complaining to them. They ask why - he says 'Chain of command . . . thing go up. . . you complain to me and I in turn complain to my superiors. So on - so forth"

    You complain - or tell - or comment *to* the person who is in *your* chain of 'command' (figuratively speaking)

    A child's chain of command = 1) parent, 2) principle, 3) vice principle.

    Children do have recourse and a path to take, people to go to, when their teacher 'does something wrong.' The MAIN reason why children are discouraged from correcting a teacher is because (imagine children and how they are in general) it would quickly lead to discourse and kids back-talking, arguing and over all just disrupting class.

    You're imagining that most children have a strong sense of right and wrong behavior and have tact, etc - but most kids don't. Most kids would love the idea of being able to just say whatever - at what ever moment - but if we permitted that it would just spiral out of control rather quickly.

    Teachers are to be seen as an authoritarian in the classroom.

    The parents, principle and vice principle are the ones who are on the level in which to discuss concerns and issues and debate topics of behavior, etc.

    Would you - being a teen - want a younger child correcting your behavior and trying to keep you on track? Or would you prefer at least a peer like a friend - or your teachers / parents do so?

    Authority is from the top-down . . . not the bottom-up.

    Now - there are very different levels of 'discussion' to be had - surely if a teacher makes a simple mistake or forgets to do something the whole class is open to remind, correct or prompt . . . sometimes education is an open and welcomed class effort. But beyond mutual educational reasons there should be less of this - for serious issues another adult should always become involved first.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 06-22-12 at 11:42 PM.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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