View Poll Results: should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

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Thread: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

  1. #101
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolv67 View Post
    Except that you can quit your job at any time and at least attempt to find another that doesn't have such policies, and I'd imagine something actually gets accomplished at your place of work. I doubt employers would put up with co workers being such little ****s to you either as is quite common in K-12. You're also getting paid for it. The "real world" I find is far more what we make of it and has little in common with K-12.
    And if I quit my job there are consequences to doing so. Such as bills not getting paid until I find another.

    And are you saying that nothing gets accomplished at school? Personally I would term "learning" as being an accomplishment.

    As for being paid...aww...too bad for them...they don't get money. They get paid by learning. Which is far more than kids in some other countries can say.

    And there is far more in common with the real world and K-12 than you make it out to be. Otherwise I wouldn't have been able to say the things I did in my previous post and be valid.
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Probably we had vastly difference experiences, but this is how I see it. If you try to quit school before a certain age you're arrested, that's one difference. Well I've certainly had jobs that are nothing like you described as far as being watched at every turn, though I acknowledge many are like that, sometimes out of necessity. Non profits in particular are more laid back and some people run their own business. I've even done IC work at home in my underwear (TMI i know). The point is we have options, at least more so than K-12.

    What I'm saying is that nothing or at least very little gets accomplished at K-12 that a mildly intelligent person couldn't accomplish better at home with a computer and a few books. Yes, it's that ineffective. Well, once basic reading skills has been acquired anyway. That's not saying much that the compensation for 180 days a year of confinement was the brand of learning entailed by watching Casper over and over, or trying to keep my ear drums intact during study hall, or later on having rocks thrown at me in the parking lot.

    There were whole classes where a substitute would come in and the dumbasses would just yell and shoot spitballs at the poor guy for an entire hour. I wasn't being taught ****, period, nor did I find myself struggling to catch up once I moved on to college. I find that quite a sad reflection on the current state of K-12 in this country. If that's not true, please tell me how I could skip 30 days a year and it make no difference in grades? You would have me punished for choosing to not endure anymore than I had to that slice of personal hell that served absolutely no purpose? How does any of that relate to the real world?

    I'm a big proponent of home schooling though, and from what I've heard on it, standardized test scores are much higher. How is that possible if they aren't learning more outside the classroom, putting the time to better use? HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests - Washington Times

    "Five areas of academic pursuit were measured. In reading, the average home-schooler scored at the 89th percentile; language, 84th percentile; math, 84th percentile; science, 86th percentile; and social studies, 84th percentile. In the core studies (reading, language and math), the average home-schooler scored at the 88th percentile."

  3. #103
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolv67 View Post
    Probably we had vastly difference experiences, but this is how I see it. If you try to quit school before a certain age you're arrested, that's one difference. Well I've certainly had jobs that are nothing like you described as far as being watched at every turn, though I acknowledge many are like that, sometimes out of necessity. Non profits in particular are more laid back and some people run their own business. I've even done IC work at home in my underwear (TMI i know). The point is we have options, at least more so than K-12.

    What I'm saying is that nothing or at least very little gets accomplished at K-12 that a mildly intelligent person couldn't accomplish better at home with a computer and a few books. Yes, it's that ineffective. Well, once basic reading skills has been acquired anyway. That's not saying much that the compensation for 180 days a year of confinement was the brand of learning entailed by watching Casper over and over, or trying to keep my ear drums intact during study hall, or later on having rocks thrown at me in the parking lot.

    There were whole classes where a substitute would come in and the dumbasses would just yell and shoot spitballs at the poor guy for an entire hour. I wasn't being taught ****, period, nor did I find myself struggling to catch up once I moved on to college. I find that quite a sad reflection on the current state of K-12 in this country. If that's not true, please tell me how I could skip 30 days a year and it make no difference in grades? You would have me punished for choosing to not endure anymore than I had to that slice of personal hell that served absolutely no purpose? How does any of that relate to the real world?

    I'm a big proponent of home schooling though, and from what I've heard on it, standardized test scores are much higher. How is that possible if they aren't learning more outside the classroom, putting the time to better use? HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests - Washington Times

    "Five areas of academic pursuit were measured. In reading, the average home-schooler scored at the 89th percentile; language, 84th percentile; math, 84th percentile; science, 86th percentile; and social studies, 84th percentile. In the core studies (reading, language and math), the average home-schooler scored at the 88th percentile."
    The same could be said for almost everything we learn in college . . . except for the things that can't be learned via the written word.

    I've come across some homeschooled children / parents who couldn't make it work = forced to go back to public school by court order because performance was so poor.

    Homeschooling is only successful when the parent is well educated but overall organized and capable of staying on target and in tune with requirements - I've done it enough to know it is an extreme challenge and very complicated. It is not simple. I don't believe that the parents who tried and couldn't make it work weren't intelligent - it's just a lot to handle.
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by wolv67 View Post
    Yes exactly, most schools public or private are run like a prison, which is particularly cruel given that the only thing one does to deserve this treatment is being born. If they stop making K-12 education a sheer utter waste of time, do away with actual criminal or otherwise harassing behavior, and stop running them like a prison, then we can talk about punishment for skipping.
    Would not "running it like a prison" entail allowing children to come and go as they please and decide which lessons were important enough to pay attention to and which not?
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Would not "running it like a prison" entail allowing children to come and go as they please and decide which lessons were important enough to pay attention to and which not?
    Of course not. It's just making kids hate school. If it's worth treating kids as prisoners, then it's worth seeing kids hate school.

    If they wanted kids to decide which lessons were important, they would've struck down school suspensions and expulsions. The goal should be giving the children their education, not make them follow a certain rule of authority.

    Edit: Kal'Stang, you must obviously be a teacher. The reason they don't do anything if you don't do your homework is because they're wasting 2 seconds of their teaching time giving out detention when they could just fail them. That doesn't make them 'crappy teachers'. At my school, detention is only served for behavioral-wise issues, not academically. Teachers and administrators are not going to keep you after school or on Saturday just because you didn't do your homework. Not to mention, detention at my school is served varely rarely this year, even when we DO have behavioral problems.

    To be honest, I don't get that much homework in high school than I did in middle school. Even if we did, nobody is going to keep you after school nor give you detention for not doing it. It's a waste of the teacher's time and the waste of the student's time. So saying that I have crappy teachers JUST because they don't usually do anything if you don't do your homework is dumb.
    Last edited by marcus903; 06-21-12 at 01:33 PM.

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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by marcus903 View Post
    Of course not. It's just making kids hate school. If it's worth treating kids as prisoners, then it's worth seeing kids hate school.

    If they wanted kids to decide which lessons were important, they would've struck down school suspensions and expulsions. The goal should be giving the children their education, not make them follow a certain rule of authority.

    Edit: Kal'Stang, you must obviously be a teacher. The reason they don't do anything if you don't do your homework is because they're wasting 2 seconds of their teaching time giving out detention when they could just fail them. That doesn't make them 'crappy teachers'. At my school, detention is only served for behavioral-wise issues, not academically. Teachers and administrators are not going to keep you after school or on Saturday just because you didn't do your homework. Not to mention, detention at my school is served varely rarely this year, even when we DO have behavioral problems.

    To be honest, I don't get that much homework in high school than I did in middle school. Even if we did, nobody is going to keep you after school nor give you detention for not doing it. It's a waste of the teacher's time and the waste of the student's time. So saying that I have crappy teachers JUST because they don't usually do anything if you don't do your homework is dumb.
    Most kids do not have a problem following the rules . . . a small percentage get in constant trouble and push against 'the system'

    If it work for the majority of students so they can get a decent education - and they're not complaining - what's your issue?
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Most kids do not have a problem following the rules . . . a small percentage get in constant trouble and push against 'the system'

    If it work for the majority of students so they can get a decent education - and they're not complaining - what's your issue?
    I'm not talking about the 'rules' in general. I'm talking about having to abide to a certain authority. For example, when your teacher does something that is rude or inappropriate for the students, we cannot point out that it's not polite to do it. Plus, some teachers are also known for their rudeness when it comes to irritating situations and will whether yell at you or will rudely demand you to do something. Students have to follow this type of authority.

    "Rules" are there for a reason. "Rules of authority" are there because some teachers (at least at the schools I've been to) seem to think they're more superior than the students. If the courts, states, and federal government made laws regarding the rules of authority, then I have a theory that there will probably be less students hating school.

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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by marcus903 View Post
    I'm not talking about the 'rules' in general. I'm talking about having to abide to a certain authority. For example, when your teacher does something that is rude or inappropriate for the students, we cannot point out that it's not polite to do it. Plus, some teachers are also known for their rudeness when it comes to irritating situations and will whether yell at you or will rudely demand you to do something. Students have to follow this type of authority.

    "Rules" are there for a reason. "Rules of authority" are there because some teachers (at least at the schools I've been to) seem to think they're more superior than the students. If the courts, states, and federal government made laws regarding the rules of authority, then I have a theory that there will probably be less students hating school.
    I fail to see the issue.

    There are still measures that can be taken and a defined path for when teachers are behaving innapropriately.
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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I fail to see the issue.

    There are still measures that can be taken and a defined path for when teachers are behaving innapropriately.
    Okay, how's this:

    The issue is not the rules. Okay? I have no issue with following the rules.

    You don't seem to know what I mean. I don't even know if this is the case. It's just a theory.

    Whatever the issue is, it's not the rules.

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    Re: Should students be suspended or expelled for truancy/tardiness?

    Quote Originally Posted by marcus903 View Post
    Okay, how's this:

    The issue is not the rules. Okay? I have no issue with following the rules.

    You don't seem to know what I mean. I don't even know if this is the case. It's just a theory.

    Whatever the issue is, it's not the rules.
    I meant that I understand what you're saying about it. But I don't see why it gets to you in the way that it does.

    I see it as being acceptable - and it should be no other way.
    You have an issue with it overall.
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