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Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

  • Yes (should)

    Votes: 32 76.2%
  • Yes (shouldn't)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No (should)

    Votes: 3 7.1%
  • No (shouldn't)

    Votes: 7 16.7%

  • Total voters
    42

LibertyBurns

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Location
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Libertarian
Due to our little debate in another thread figured we could find out what most of you thought.
 
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No. I am not a commodity that can be owned. I am a man, not property.
 
No. I am not a commodity that can be owned. I am a man, not property.

Who said property has to be a commodity?

Anyway, the right to life is based on self ownership.

Edit:

And who said your body isn't a commodity?
 
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Anyway, the right to life is based on self ownership.

No, it isn't. That is pure unadulterated nonsense. The right to life is based on our ability to kill and our willingness to do so in self-defense, such that any society that does not recognize the right to life is inherently unstable.

And who said your body isn't a commodity?

You should know. You quoted him.
 
Can anyone give background regarding the question and discussion?
 
Due to our little debate in another thread figured we could find out what most of you thought.
Do I own myself as far as being my own property? No, because I am not property.

Do I own myself as far as having control/power over myself? I have as much control and power over myself as I think a human being can in a universe where autonomy is impossible.
 
This is simply a libertarian axiom that is crafted to ensnare the gullible. If you accept it then a whole bunch of dominos will be pushed over behind it. At the end will be the dominos which state that you must then accept weak or no government and there is no authority to tax people.

This film has been seen many many times before and is predictable as the most cliched of Hollywood scripts.

btw - the poll is highly flawed. Either you do or you don't. The idea of should or shouldn't is ludicrous.
 
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No, it isn't. That is pure unadulterated nonsense. The right to life is based on our ability to kill and our willingness to do so in self-defense, such that any society that does not recognize the right to life is inherently unstable.

If we didn't own our own bodies than killing us wouldn't be a problem.

You should know. You quoted him.

I'm asking for where in the hell you got that from considering you can sell your body as a commodity.
 
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I am owned by my cats. It was hard to accept but I pride myself on being a realist. If I outlive them, I will once again own myself.
 
No. I am not a commodity that can be owned. I am a man, not property.

This is how I see it as well. Property doesn't apply to people, so its not a question with a correct answer as the question itself is flawed.
 
This is simply a libertarian axiom that is crafted to ensnare the gullible. If you accept it then a whole bunch of dominos will be pushed over behind it. At the end will be the dominos which state that you must then accept weak or no government and there is no authority to tax people.

Yes, ethical judgement do have implications for how one behaves.

Some choose to modify their behavior to conform to their ethics. Others choose to ignore or denigrate ethics so as to give themselves the freedom to act as they wish.
 
Ownership simply means that one has the exclusive right to use a particular thing. So yes, I would say that we each own our own physical bodies. We each have an exclusive claim on the use of our physical bodies. No other person has a claim on our bodies.
 
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If I own myself and charge myself money each time I have sex with myself does that make me a whore?
 
At first I thought this was an offshoot of the Seinfield master of your domain question.
 
Ownership simply means that one has the exclusive right to use a particular things. So yes, I would say that we each own our own physical bodies. We each have an exclusive claim on the use of our physical bodies. No other person has a claim on our bodies.

I'd have to question that a bit. For starters, have a child.

You can support that child, or the State will force you to support that child. That means the labor of your body and the product of that labor are no longer exclusively yours.

For another, get divorced. There's this thing called Alimony... I was lucky enough to avoid it, but if you get saddled with it they take a chunk of your pay for potentially many years and give it to your former spouse.

Then there's debt. You can get your salary garnished for unpaid debt. Again, the product of your bodily labor being granted to another, will you or won't you.

If you're an employee you're like a tenant farmer. You get a certain fixed amount of the product of your labor, your employer keeps the rest. Again, you don't own the product of your body.

Try to sell a kidney and see how that works out.

I think the whole self-ownership thing is typically put into overly simplistic terms. Also, didn't we do this thread just last month?? :mrgreen:
 
If I own myself and charge myself money each time I have sex with myself does that make me a whore?



Um..... yes. Go turn yourself in to the local authorities at once. :lamo
 
I'd have to question that a bit. For starters, have a child.

You can support that child, or the State will force you to support that child. That means the labor of your body and the product of that labor are no longer exclusively yours.

For another, get divorced. There's this thing called Alimony... I was lucky enough to avoid it, but if you get saddled with it they take a chunk of your pay for potentially many years and give it to your former spouse.

Then there's debt. You can get your salary garnished for unpaid debt. Again, the product of your bodily labor being granted to another, will you or won't you.

If you're an employee you're like a tenant farmer. You get a certain fixed amount of the product of your labor, your employer keeps the rest. Again, you don't own the product of your body.

Try to sell a kidney and see how that works out.

I think the whole self-ownership thing is typically put into overly simplistic terms. Also, didn't we do this thread just last month?? :mrgreen:

Yes, there are other ethical rules, and they all interact. Self-ownership does not exist in a vacuum. If one incurs a debt, then one is obliged to pay that debt. If one makes a commitment, one is obliged to fulfill that commitment. There are many rules that govern one's behavior; the idea of self-ownership is only one of several.
 
Of course a man does not "own" himself...or is it hisself...
He cannot do this, if he wishes to survive...
He could try to be a Philip Nolan...anti-social to an extreme.
 
This is simply a libertarian axiom that is crafted to ensnare the gullible. If you accept it then a whole bunch of dominos will be pushed over behind it. At the end will be the dominos which state that you must then accept weak or no government and there is no authority to tax people.

This film has been seen many many times before and is predictable as the most cliched of Hollywood scripts.

btw - the poll is highly flawed. Either you do or you don't. The idea of should or shouldn't is ludicrous.
I hardly think so. Rather I think one of the dominoes are flawed.

Yes we should own ourself, but that doesn't mean all of the products of your labour is yours. For instance if you own a company, there is no guarantee that everything the company earns is yours.
 
If we didn't own our own bodies than killing us wouldn't be a problem.

No, this is crap-- another false dichotomy. Murder is a problem because civilization requires order. If civilization has orderly laws governing homicide, then homicides that occur within the bounds of those laws-- to an almost outrageous extreme-- are simply not a problem. A lot of the problems our society has now concerning street violence are a consequence of attempting to over-regulate homicide.

I'm asking for where in the hell you got that from considering you can sell your body as a commodity.

No, I can not. I can, at most, sell parts of it. I could, theoretically, sell parts of it that I require for life-- but then removing those parts would constitute murder under the laws of most societies. I could, theoretically and if the law allowed, sell myself into chattel slavery but I would have the same moral obligation to regain my freedom as any other slave. I can not sign such a contract because I can not honorably keep it.
 
You can own your body, but who owns your soul? Which is really your "self?"
 
This is simply a libertarian axiom that is crafted to ensnare the gullible. If you accept it then a whole bunch of dominos will be pushed over behind it. At the end will be the dominos which state that you must then accept weak or no government and there is no authority to tax people.

This film has been seen many many times before and is predictable as the most cliched of Hollywood scripts.

btw - the poll is highly flawed. Either you do or you don't. The idea of should or shouldn't is ludicrous.

Yeah it's that same type of BS we hear about implied consent and some obligation to society,
 
You can own your body, but who owns your soul? Which is really your "self?"

Your soul is even less property than your body-- at least living bodies can be bought and sold, even if they cannot truly be owned.
 
Your soul is even less property than your body-- at least living bodies can be bought and sold, even if they cannot truly be owned.

"au contraire mon ami!"

hub-man-puts-soul-up-for-sale-on-ebay.jpg


People sell their souls all the time! :mrgreen:
 
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