View Poll Results: Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

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  • Yes (should)

    37 74.00%
  • Yes (shouldn't)

    0 0%
  • No (should)

    4 8.00%
  • No (shouldn't)

    9 18.00%
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Thread: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

  1. #621
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Since we don't "own" our bodies in perpetuity or control all aspects of them completely the definition would be more like "leased" or "loaned".
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  2. #622
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Thats rediculous, your doing drugs, who you sleep with and so on are not the buisiness of society at all.
    Tell that to society, which is defining laws that control all of that.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #623
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Physician assisted suicide could be considered one such law. As it stands, I think it's not a crime to commit suicide (at least not a crime which is punishable - what are they gonna do? Put the corpse in jail?) However it is a crime to help somebody commit suicide. This IMO is the equivalent of being legally allowed to smoke marijuana but making it a crime to sell it.
    It actually is illegal in most states to commit suicide, although you're right, there's not much they can do to punish you if you succeed. If you attempt suicide and fail, you can be jailed, etc.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #624
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    As long as you buy the idea of implied consent.
    Go shoot someone. Tell the responding officers you have not consented to be held accountable under the law. See where that gets you.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #625
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Yes, that has little actual bearing on whether or not 1 person can assist another in suicide. It's about the role of the state in regard to a person's life. If I "own" my body, given the definition given here - I should by definition be able to entrust it to those I see fit after I am no longer able to hold my own faculties. With that said, a law banning assisted suicide WOULD infringe on my ability to do as a please with my body as long as I am not affecting anyone.
    I agree, but an infringement on one of your ownership rights does not mean you don't still own yourself because you still have a bundle of other ownership rights.


    The problem with assisted suicide is that you are relying on the consent of other people to exercise your right for you which suggests that assisted suicide is not self right.

  6. #626
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Ok, but you cannot argue that a private system is better than.
    Of course you can. Having a good health care system does not require socialization of health care.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    All of those things restrict personal freedom, socialized medicine does now, infact it expands it.
    How exactly does compelling participation not restrict personal freedom? And 'freedom' you might gain will be at the expense of others.
    “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.”
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  7. #627
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Go shoot someone. Tell the responding officers you have not consented to be held accountable under the law. See where that gets you.
    Cool story Actions of force bring reactions of force. I can't see that has to do with consent.

    Society also found it acceptable to enslave black people. But they consented, so its OK.
    Last edited by Aberration; 06-26-12 at 04:11 PM.
    “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.”
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  8. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Yeah it does, look at the statistics of which countries pay more for healthcare with what results.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post


    Though one could argue that the standard of healthcare given by these countries may not be the same, I seriously doubt Scandinavian countries have institutions with low standards. This chart lays out life expectancy vs. cost of health care per person.
    Two people fall into the same correlation/causation trap at the same time...


    Forcing payment for an unfairly highly priced item in effect rewards whoever is pricing it that way. If a bunch of you pay for me to have a nicer house, it didn't make the house more affordable. It remains just as unaffordable and simply shifts the burden for its unaffordability elsewhere. So again, no, spreading insane costs around doesn't make them sane. The same cost is incurred, the same high priced item gets purchased, and so it goes.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 06-26-12 at 04:19 PM.

  9. #629
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    Cool story Actions of force bring reactions of force. I can't see that has to do with consent.

    Society also found it acceptable to enslave black people. But they consented, so its OK.
    You accept the consequences just by being here. You cannot opt out of those consequences. The only way not to suffer those consequences is to leave the society. The same thing was true, long ago, of slavery. Where slavery was legal, you could not opt out of it. Blacks were, almost without exception, slaves in those areas. The only way not to be a slave was to leave that particular society and head north.

    You're bound by the dictates of the society you live in whether you like it or not.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #630
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    Of course you can. Having a good health care system does not require socialization of health care.
    There's no proof of that.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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