View Poll Results: Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

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  • Yes (should)

    37 74.00%
  • Yes (shouldn't)

    0 0%
  • No (should)

    4 8.00%
  • No (shouldn't)

    9 18.00%
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Thread: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

  1. #601
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    The political left does argue that what one does to one's own body effects others, based on the fact that we now socialize the cost of the eventual negative consequences of unhealthy behavior. But they don't actually want to control anyone's self-sabotaging behavior. Rather they just want to control the taxpayer checkbook to be able to write off the suffering of the stupid. They essentially want to tie everyone's shoelaces together and declare "See!? We're all in this together! Now follow me."
    If "socializing" the cost helps lowers health insurance and medical costs for everyone, including you, then what is wrong with that?

  2. #602
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    If you sell or donate one of your kidneys then aren't you trading a piece of your property?
    Ones its detached from you its not part of you.

  3. #603
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    If "socializing" the cost helps lowers health insurance and medical costs for everyone, including you, then what is wrong with that?
    Well it doesn't, so there's something very wrong with that.

  4. #604
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Yeah it does, look at the statistics of which countries pay more for healthcare with what results.

  5. #605
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Well it doesn't, so there's something very wrong with that.


    Though one could argue that the standard of healthcare given by these countries may not be the same, I seriously doubt Scandinavian countries have institutions with low standards. This chart lays out life expectancy vs. cost of health care per person.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 06-26-12 at 04:53 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #606
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Physician assisted suicide could be considered one such law. As it stands, I think it's not a crime to commit suicide (at least not a crime which is punishable - what are they gonna do? Put the corpse in jail?) However it is a crime to help somebody commit suicide. This IMO is the equivalent of being legally allowed to smoke marijuana but making it a crime to sell it.
    Fourteenth Amendment Due Process Clause, which Amendment provides that: “[n]o state shall make or enforce any law which shall . . . deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.”

    The government doesn't recognize or protect the self owner's right to have a physician assisted suicide. But I would think the self owner would still have the right to commit suicide if he can do it without any external help. Like you said, "what are they gonna do, put a corpse in jail?"
    Last edited by Moot; 06-26-12 at 04:59 AM.

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Without the due process of law ... i.e. you could have a euthenasia process of law.

  8. #608
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Ones its detached from you its not part of you.
    But your kidney is a part of you and you have the same bundle of property rights to use, transfer, exclude and immunity from expropiation over your body as you would if you owned a piece of land. Of course once you've consented to sell or donate a kidney and it is removed then you have "transfered" your right of "use" of your kidney to someone else.

  9. #609
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    But your kidney is a part of you and you have the same bundle of property rights to use, transfer, exclude and immunity from expropiation over your body as you would if you owned a piece of land. Of course once you've consented to sell or donate a kidney and it is removed then you have "transfered" your right of "use" of your kidney to someone else.
    Once you remove it, its not part of you ... Its not "you," thats my point, if you sell your kidney but keep it part of you then that sale is meaningless.

  10. #610
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Without the due process of law ... i.e. you could have a euthenasia process of law.
    Wouldn't that require an amendment to the Constitution?

    As a side, "due process of law" originated from the Magna Carta....

    "No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgment of his equals or by the law of the land."

    Oliver Cromwell once said, "I care not for the Magna Farta." lol

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