View Poll Results: Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

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  • Yes (should)

    37 74.00%
  • Yes (shouldn't)

    0 0%
  • No (should)

    4 8.00%
  • No (shouldn't)

    9 18.00%
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Thread: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

  1. #591
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    They have a significant amount of control over your actions, yes. They can decide that you can't steal, murder, rape, etc. They can decide what speed you're allowed to drive and what penalties are levied against you if you violate the law. Do they own you? No. Do they control certain aspects of your life? Damn straight. Welcome to the social contract.
    Those are laws that govern what you cannot do to other people. I'm talking about laws that govern what you cannot do to your own body, when it doesn't affect anyone else but you. Call it a "social contract" all you want, but the fact remains we do not own ourselves as long as it's legislated to us what we can and cannot do to our own bodies.

  2. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    Those are laws that govern what you cannot do to other people. I'm talking about laws that govern what you cannot do to your own body, when it doesn't affect anyone else but you.
    The political left does argue that what one does to one's own body effects others, based on the fact that we now socialize the cost of the eventual negative consequences of unhealthy behavior. But they don't actually want to control anyone's self-sabotaging behavior. Rather they just want to control the taxpayer checkbook to be able to write off the suffering of the stupid. They essentially want to tie everyone's shoelaces together and declare "See!? We're all in this together! Now follow me."

  3. #593
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    A woman IS her body, when they say its "her body" they are saying that to say that no one can tell her what she can do with her body, but its not like there is a seperation between her and her body, she IS her body, its not property.
    I think we are essentially saying the same thing. It is just that you object to the idea of property and, thus, ownership of ones own body. Your body belongs to you. It is yours, and no one elses. On that we seem to agree. Equating this to ownership or property is just a means associating the possession of ones own body to other things one might possess. We are just using different terminology to describe the same thing.

  4. #594
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    So you're willing to defend a theory of Dualism? Some mythical homunculus sitting in the head controlling the body? Otherwise you're just proposing word games - and cheap word games at that.
    Rewrite that in english and I will consider responding to it.

  5. #595
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    Those are laws that govern what you cannot do to other people. I'm talking about laws that govern what you cannot do to your own body, when it doesn't affect anyone else but you. Call it a "social contract" all you want, but the fact remains we do not own ourselves as long as it's legislated to us what we can and cannot do to our own bodies.
    Fine, I'm not arguing that you do own yourself, in fact, I'm saying that self-ownership is entirely irrelevant. The "social contract", the inherent agreement that, as a part of a given society, you agree to follow society's dictates or suffer the proscribed penalties, isn't limited to just what you do to other people. Society can and does make all kinds of rules about what you can do, regardless of it's effects on you or others. You can disagree all you want whether that should be the case, the fact is, it is the case.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    Those are laws that govern what you cannot do to other people. I'm talking about laws that govern what you cannot do to your own body, when it doesn't affect anyone else but you. Call it a "social contract" all you want, but the fact remains we do not own ourselves as long as it's legislated to us what we can and cannot do to our own bodies.
    Can you give us an example of a law that governs what you can't do to your own body when it doesn't affect anyone?

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    The government is an extension of the people, it is SOCIETY which has decided that nobody can use drugs, nor can be engaged in prostitution, through their elected representatives and their votes, they have made those things illegal. As everyone is bound by the social contract as a consequence of being part of the society, everyone agrees inherently to follow the dictates of society. Stop being melodramatic.
    Thats rediculous, your doing drugs, who you sleep with and so on are not the buisiness of society at all.

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    I think we are essentially saying the same thing. It is just that you object to the idea of property and, thus, ownership of ones own body. Your body belongs to you. It is yours, and no one elses. On that we seem to agree. Equating this to ownership or property is just a means associating the possession of ones own body to other things one might possess. We are just using different terminology to describe the same thing.
    you ARE your body, thats the difference, I'm saying seperating your self and your body in some sort of duelism is only a linquistic metaphor, but in reality you are your body, property or possession is a relation you ahve to somethign else.

    I suppose its just semantics.

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    you ARE your body, thats the difference, I'm saying seperating your self and your body in some sort of duelism is only a linquistic metaphor, but in reality you are your body, property or possession is a relation you ahve to somethign else.

    I suppose its just semantics.
    If you sell or donate one of your kidneys then aren't you trading a piece of your property?

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Can you give us an example of a law that governs what you can't do to your own body when it doesn't affect anyone?
    Physician assisted suicide could be considered one such law. As it stands, I think it's not a crime to commit suicide (at least not a crime which is punishable - what are they gonna do? Put the corpse in jail?) However it is a crime to help somebody commit suicide. This IMO is the equivalent of being legally allowed to smoke marijuana but making it a crime to sell it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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