View Poll Results: Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

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  • Yes (should)

    37 74.00%
  • Yes (shouldn't)

    0 0%
  • No (should)

    4 8.00%
  • No (shouldn't)

    9 18.00%
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Thread: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

  1. #571
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    I am not suggesting forgoing any means to protect property rights. Organizations whose purpose is to protect the person and property of their members would certainly exist.
    If you're talking about private organizations then that's obviously not objective enforcement, which leads you back to lawlessness - or to Rule by Money, which isn't much different. In the end a type of warlord system would arise.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-25-12 at 12:12 AM.
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  2. #572
    global liberation

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Killing people is a problem because it doesn't benefit the society in any way. Actually, the whole premise of a society is pretty much based around the pretty solid idea that killing members of our species in a world made increasingly smaller by our prolific ability to procreate is inherently bad.
    Killing
    inherently bad? Not so sure. There are times when killing is appropriate or, at least, lethal force is so. A right to life is at the heart of the social contract, but not because killing a member of the species is mystically bad.

  3. #573
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post


    Killing
    inherently bad? Not so sure. There are times when killing is appropriate or, at least, lethal force is so. A right to life is at the heart of the social contract, but not because killing a member of the species is mystically bad.
    I didn't take you for the willingly obtuse type eco. I'm clearly talking about in a societal context. Killing somebody for the ****s and giggles (ie. females, property, comic book collections) is just not a good thing. In extenuating circumstances like war, self defence etc it's another subject all together.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #574
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Self government. Our government exists only by the consent of the self owners who freely give up "certain" rights to government in exchange for the security and protection of the all their other rights.
    Our government exists only by the consent of the self owners people who freely give up "certain" rights to government in exchange for the security and protection of the all their other rights.

    "We the people ..." - why has everyone seemingly forgotten this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Where I differ with Libertarians is the right to labor. Libertarians think that everything they earn is rightfully theirs and that taxation is forced labor. I disagree because Libertarians consented to have a government and gave up certain self rights in exchange for governments protection of their other rights. One of the "certain" rights they gave up is immunity from taxation of their labor. A Liberatarian depends on government to protect his right to get paid for his/her labor. But no one is forcing the Libertarian to work and if he doesn't work, he doesn't have to pay taxes. Ergo, no forced taxation or labor.
    I agree.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  5. #575
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    You're right. I wasn't getting that. So you're saying that my home is like a kingdom? That is an interesting view I've never heard before.

    So whom would you prefer owned my home, rather than me?
    No I'm saying a large estate is like a kingdom ... I don't care about your home, I'm talking about large parts of land that effects other people.

  6. #576
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    BTW do those that believe people are property.

    If you sell youself to someone does that person have exclusive rights to you? I.e. can he sue you for masturbating? (even though your his property, he has to sue you ... your defiling his property, which is you).

  7. #577
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Not sure why people on the left are having such difficulty with the concept of self ownership all of the sudden. The entire abortion rights movement is based upon the premise that a woman has the right to determine what happens with HER body--as in it is her body, she owns it and she gets to decide whether or not to carry a child to term or abort it. If she does not own her own body then the decision on whether or not to abort is not hers but someone else's.
    The idea that the body is just some abstract ownerless vessel to house our consciousness is not supported by any rational argument or any rational law. And hardly worthy of 59 pages of debate.
    Last edited by Fletch; 06-25-12 at 01:02 PM.

  8. #578
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Not sure why people on the left are having such difficulty with the concept of self ownership all of the sudden. The entire abortion rights movement is based upon the premise that a woman has the right to determine what happens with HER body--as in it is her body, she owns it and she gets to decide whether or not to carry a child to term or abort it. If she does not own her own body then the decision on whether or not to abort is not hers but someone else's.
    The idea that the body is just some abstract owneess vessel to house our consciousness is not supported by any rational argument or any rational law. And hardly worthy of 59 pages of debate.
    A woman IS her body, when they say its "her body" they are saying that to say that no one can tell her what she can do with her body, but its not like there is a seperation between her and her body, she IS her body, its not property.

  9. #579
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Not sure why people on the left are having such difficulty with the concept of self ownership all of the sudden. The entire abortion rights movement is based upon the premise that a woman has the right to determine what happens with HER body--as in it is her body, she owns it and she gets to decide whether or not to carry a child to term or abort it. If she does not own her own body then the decision on whether or not to abort is not hers but someone else's.
    The idea that the body is just some abstract ownerless vessel to house our consciousness is not supported by any rational argument or any rational law. And hardly worthy of 59 pages of debate.
    I don't understand how anyone believes they can sell themselves. Go ahead, use your will as much as you are able to lift the arm of the person next to you. Regardless of how much power you put into that belief, the arm will not move without the volition of that person or the use of outside physical force. A very simple test to show plainly and completely that ownership, and all the trappings that go with it, is a sham when it comes to people. I am autonomous and would exist with or without society. While you may be able to influence my decisions you cannot physically control me so ownership is superfluous. Without the option to sell why bother having a price tag, cash register, or storefront at all?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-25-12 at 01:45 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #580
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    When you say this is my car. This is my house. These are my shoes. In what significant way are you saying something different than when you say this is my body?

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