View Poll Results: Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

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  • Yes (should)

    37 74.00%
  • Yes (shouldn't)

    0 0%
  • No (should)

    4 8.00%
  • No (shouldn't)

    9 18.00%
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Thread: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

  1. #541
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    It's an ethical premise, not a fact. It can't be proven or dis-proven. It is a matter of one's beliefs.

    You either believe that ownership (the right to decide, to direct, to control) of a human person is vested in the person himself, or you believe that it is vested in some other person(s).
    To decide or direct IS to control - and I still don't see what ownership has to do with it unless you want a method to transfer that control to someone else. Since we seem to agree that control can only reside in the person him/herself, adding ownership into the mix is superfluous.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-24-12 at 06:30 AM.
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  2. #542
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    I agree with you that it is not always a black or white question as to what is controlling us. But that's not what I am asking. I am asking whether you think it's right for one person to forcibly override the choice of another person? It's a question about ethics.
    Using your outlook:

    If one person tried to kill another I would do everything in my power to override that choice.
    I would also consider that override to be very much a correct action.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    so you seek to limit the question so fundamentally that you only regard the scope that your philosophy covers?
    Yes, it is a very specific question.

  4. #544
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Using your outlook:

    If one person tried to kill another I would do everything in my power to override that choice.
    I would also consider that override to be very much a correct action.
    Agreed, if A wants to go on living, and B decides to override that choice by killing him, then B is controlling A. B is violating A's self-ownership.
    Last edited by Centinel; 06-24-12 at 08:23 AM.

  5. #545
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Yes, it is a very specific question.
    I think it depends on the situation.

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I think it depends on the situation.
    Fair enough.

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Fair enough.
    I wish I could give you a straighter answer, but I am unable, in my own mind, to limit it to the scope of your questions and real world concerns often have to override the theoretical we are discussing here as well. Sometimes an action that fails this test ends up being good in its results (assuming the good outweighs the harm) and sometimes it doesn't matter how good the results will be if the course of action required is bad enough.

    In my mind, I assign weights of good and evil to everything and try to do the most good possible on balance since no action is ever perfectly good or perfectly evil. However, there are some lines I am also just plain not willing to cross no matter what.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 06-24-12 at 08:55 AM.

  8. #548
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Agreed, if A wants to go on living, and B decides to override that choice by killing him, then B is controlling A. B is violating A's self-ownership.
    Did you not see the third person in the example?

    Or did you ignore the third person on purpose?



    And it's still not ownership. Nice try.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-24-12 at 11:37 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Did you not see the third person in the example?

    Or did you ignore the third person on purpose?



    And it's still not ownership. Nice try.
    Either person A or person C would be justified in stopping B from interfering with A's choice to live.

    As I've said before, I don't care if it is called ownership or simply the ability to make one's own choices.

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Either person A or person C would be justified in stopping B from interfering with A's choice to live.

    As I've said before, I don't care if it is called ownership or simply the ability to make one's own choices.
    And if neither A nor C CAN stop B...?
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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