View Poll Results: Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

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  • Yes (should)

    37 74.00%
  • Yes (shouldn't)

    0 0%
  • No (should)

    4 8.00%
  • No (shouldn't)

    9 18.00%
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Thread: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

  1. #471
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Agreed. In a democracy, some state agents are elected by the voters. Nonetheless, democratic governments still exercise a territorial monopoly of ultimate jurisdiction and taxation.
    yet your ok with a system of private estates ...

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    yet your ok with a system of private estates ...
    Yes, I'm okay with a system of private property. I prefer individuals or groups own their land, homes, and businesses rather than the government.

  3. #473
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Even thought your definition of government is essencailly the same as private estates, other than government is democratically accountable ... Basically kingdoms.

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Even thought your definition of government is essencailly the same as private estates, other than government is democratically accountable ... Basically kingdoms.
    What is your point?

    Are you agreeing or disagreeing with my definition of the government as an agency that exercises a territorial monopoly of ultimate jurisdiction (decision making) and taxation?

    Do you agree or disagree with the idea that there should be a government?

    I'm having trouble understanding whether we agree or disagree and, if we disagree, exactly what you disagree with.

  5. #475
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    What I'm saying is your actually totally FINE with government as long as its private and unaccountable ...

  6. #476
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    This a good example of your deflection. You've already admitted that slavery is ownership over others.
    I don't believe people can own people. If you believe I've asserted that "slavery is ownership" then you can quote my statement as evidence. Otherwise, you are mistaken.

    Slavery is an extreme example of people exerting power over other people. It's not ownership.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Self ownership does not mean "owning others" or "power over others".
    The concept of "self ownership" is the result of wrong thinking. People are not property.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Yes, believe it or not, not all slave owners were bad and ruthless. Take Thomas Jefferson, for instance.
    Don't kid yourself - both Jefferson and his slaves were well aware of the realities of the situation. If they kept their power struggle more or less peaceful it wouldn't be the first or last time in history that this has happened.





    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    As a courtesy, would you mind not typing your answers in my quote box?
    I seldom do that, as you know.
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  7. #477
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    What I'm saying is your actually totally FINE with government as long as its private and unaccountable ...
    Okay, well then you're wrong.

    I'm not fine with any agency that claims a territorial monopoly of ultimate jurisdiction and taxation. Such an agency, in order to enforce its claim, would necessarily violate the person and property of others.

  8. #478
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    What I meant by government (or state) is an agency that exercises a territorial monopoly of ultimate jurisdiction (decision making) and taxation. A government is the ultimate arbiter in all cases of conflict, even those conflicts involving itself.

    Does this sense of the word match up with your idea of government?
    It seems to match up with the existing system of government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    I agree. In a stateless social order, people would develop systems and institutions to perform all these functions.
    In a sufficiently advanced and enlightened society the institutions would not be needed at all.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  9. #479
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    As a citizen we become somewhat state property. All citizens of a country agree to abide by the laws of the federal, state and local jurisdiction, where they reside. Now any person can sit on the floor and refuse to do anything, move or even eat. We have rights over our own actions and are held accountable for them positive or negative but no other agency or persons according to our laws has the right to invade our expectation of privacy or deny us our constitutional rights and freedom. It's a compromise or balance between being controlled by boundaries set by society over improper actions and neglect to ensure domestic tranquility and the protection of individual rights. The absolutes of self ownership and non ownership do not exist realistically in a civilization. We are a community of people that are bound together to improve our quality of life, chance of survival and betterment of our neighbors.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    It seems to match up with the existing system of government.

    In a sufficiently advanced and enlightened society the institutions would not be needed at all.
    Possibly. But mankind being what it is, murderers, robbers, thieves, thugs, and con artists will always exist, and life in society will be impossible if they are not checked by the use of defensive force. Individuals will always need to defend themselves and their property from such people, or to establish agencies to do so on their behalf.
    Last edited by Centinel; 06-22-12 at 11:25 AM.

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