View Poll Results: Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

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  • Yes (should)

    37 74.00%
  • Yes (shouldn't)

    0 0%
  • No (should)

    4 8.00%
  • No (shouldn't)

    9 18.00%
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Thread: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

  1. #381
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Let's double-check that original post, shall we??? Nope! No "protection" requirement listed. That still leaves anarchy and anarchy/communism as viable options given the parameters above.

    Lying about the requirements then arguing that I'm not meeting them.
    As I said above, we should shoot for a social order in which everyone is free to act in any way he wishes as long as he doesn't harm others or their property. This ensures the maximum freedom not just for some, but for all.

    As LibertyBurns pointed out, under such a system, the sole legitimate purpose of government agents is to facilitate the protection of life and property.

  2. #382
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    I don't know what name you wish to apply, but I oppose any organization that violates the rules of civilized behavior. It is possible to live by rules without granting special privileges to rulers.
    It's possible but is it probable in the next 1000 years? The human race still has a lot of growing up to do, so I seriously doubt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    I suppose that the most important question is what institutions are necessary to establish peace and justice in a society? And then, is coercive, monopoly government the only institution capable of achieving these goals?
    Now you have introduced the "protectionist" clause - at least it looks like you have - which, if true, is different than what you were saying before.
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  3. #383
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    As I said above, we should shoot for a social order in which everyone is free to act in any way he wishes as long as he doesn't harm others or their property. This ensures the maximum freedom not just for some, but for all.

    As LibertyBurns pointed out, under such a system, the sole legitimate purpose of government agents is to facilitate the protection of life and property.
    But your original post doesn't demand government. Are you now saying you WANT government because you demand protection? I'm getting mixed signals here.
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  4. #384
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    But your original post doesn't demand government. Are you now saying you WANT government because you demand protection? I'm getting mixed signals here.
    I'm unclear of what you mean by government. It could mean any number of things and perform any number of functions. If you could provide some clarity around that, I could provide a better answer as to whether I see government as necessary.

    However, I'm proposing a social order in which the law states that no person may damage the person or property of another. If that is the law, then any person may legally protect his own person or property, or may delegate this task to an agent of his choosing.

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    I don't know what name you wish to apply, but I oppose any organization that violates the rules of civilized behavior. It is possible to live by rules without granting special privileges to rulers.
    Me too, which is why I oppose Capitalism and capitalist private property.

  6. #386
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    I'm unclear of what you mean by government. It could mean any number of things and perform any number of functions. If you could provide some clarity around that, I could provide a better answer as to whether I see government as necessary.
    You used the term "government" in your second post. Between our posts that's the first time it's been used so what did you mean when you used it??

    Anarchy is lack of government but still meets the requirements of "a social order in which everyone is free to act in any way he wishes as long as he doesn't harm others or their property".

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    However, I'm proposing a social order in which the law states that no person may damage the person or property of another. If that is the law, then any person may legally protect his own person or property, or may delegate this task to an agent of his choosing.
    You've created a whole legal system - book keeping, interpretation, judgement, and enforcement. Who will you trust to do the book keeping, interpretation, and judgement? You also seem to have established mercenaries.
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    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  7. #387
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Let's double-check that original post, shall we??? Nope! No "protection" requirement listed. That still leaves anarchy and anarchy/communism as viable options given the parameters above.



    Lying about the requirements then arguing that I'm not meeting them.
    Lying? In what way. Their property, private property, that under the system you linked does not advocate.

  8. #388
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Nobody. why does someone have to own you? Who owns the bugs in your yard?
    Zgoldsmith pretty much hit it right on the button. Anyway, what do bugs have to do with ownership of ones own body? It just means that no one can take my property from me due to property rights, if my body is indeed my property, then ahhh no one can take me as a slave. Also you should not be telling me how to use my property, which is not the case any longer in the good ole U S of A...

  9. #389
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3
    if a group of robbers or vandals try and destory or take equipment, then yeah, you defend it
    vs.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Thats not what I'm saying, lets say people's farms have been washed away due to a flood but one guys farm has been saved, I'd say the community has the right to that farm.

    I hope the farmer takes the earlier-you's advice and defends his property from the later-you.
    Last edited by Mach; 06-21-12 at 01:25 PM.

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Me too, which is why I oppose Capitalism and capitalist private property.
    Nothing wrong with capitalism, its only when government is strong enough to meddle in the free market that you start to find todays crony capitalism/corporatism.

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