View Poll Results: Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

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  • Yes (should)

    37 74.00%
  • Yes (shouldn't)

    0 0%
  • No (should)

    4 8.00%
  • No (shouldn't)

    9 18.00%
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Thread: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

  1. #371
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    If you would care to show exactly what system WAS in his comments I'd be willing to look. The problem is, you won't find any - just a description as I quoted. Both anarchy and communism meet the requirements he laid out. If you have a problem with that I suggest you take it up with him.
    You think the protection of persons and property mean anarchy/communism... Putting a slash there why? They are two radically different forms of governance lol

  2. #372
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyBurns View Post
    You think the protection of persons and property mean anarchy/communism... Putting a slash there why? They are two radically different forms of governance lol
    You're probably thinking of Communism, not communism, so "LOL" right back at ya'.

    But, to elaborate further ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism


    Too many people, especially young people, see "communism" and think "Communism". I think it has something to do with their lazy tendency to not use capital letters like they should. It's sad, really.



    As far as "protection" - that wasn't mentioned in the post to which I responded.
    Now who did you say was seeing things that were NOT there???
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-20-12 at 07:11 PM.
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  3. #373
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You're probably thinking of Communism, not communism, so "LOL" right back at ya'.

    But, to elaborate further ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism


    Too many people, especially young people, see "communism" and think "Communism". I think it has something to do with their lazy tendency to not use capital letters like they should. It's sad, really.



    As far as "protection" - that was NOT mentioned in the post to which I responded. Now who's seeing things that are NOT there???
    Ummm posting that actually hurt your argument lmao... But okay... I'm not seeing how protection of persons and property has anything to do with altruism...

  4. #374
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    If you would care to show exactly what system WAS in his comments I'd be willing to look. The problem is, you won't find any - just a description as I quoted. Both anarchy and communism meet the requirements he laid out. If you have a problem with that I suggest you take it up with him.
    I don't know what name you wish to apply, but I oppose any organization that violates the rules of civilized behavior. It is possible to live by rules without granting special privileges to rulers.

    I suppose that the most important question is what institutions are necessary to establish peace and justice in a society? And then, is coercive, monopoly government the only institution capable of achieving these goals?

  5. #375
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    I think a better question is: if I don't own me, who does?
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  6. #376
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    I think a better question is: if I don't own me, who does?
    Nobody. why does someone have to own you? Who owns the bugs in your yard?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #377
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Nobody. why does someone have to own you? Who owns the bugs in your yard?
    I'd agree. That was directed to the people that think we do NOT own ourselves.
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've never denied my own hackish tendencies
    Quote Originally Posted by Pin dÁr View Post
    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by blaxshep View Post
    Not all Nazis were bad people

  8. #378
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    IMO, land ownership is inheritly wrong...it should not be bought and sold..
    However all the fruits of a man's labor should be his, after taxes, of course.
    I more or less agree with that.

    You just said i still actually own myself, yhen you say this isnt needed. I dont understand your contradiction? I dont need to own myself in order to own myself? This makes no sense hah... Your saying ownership of myself is not needed to protect myself? Your confusing now
    I'm saying self ownership is a nonsensicle concept, even non self ownership, its like asking is water wet ... or is water not wet. Its a rediculous question.

    being autonomous doens't requre ownership at all.

    Air is not property, true, good job, but when you own yourself, and you have unhealthy pollution, you should be proected by property rights.

    Property rights were essential to freedom, id have to find my history lesson to explain this lol, its too long, and really i had to shorten it up so i wouldnt be here all day
    How? You gonna sue for poluting the air that no one owns? How is someone else responsible for the air YOU breath ... Thats rediculous and you know unworkable in the real world.

    Whether or not property rights were historically connected with certain freedoms is irrelivent, you certainly don't need them, and they certainly disrupt actualy workable freedom for a lot of people.

  9. #379
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    I'd agree. That was directed to the people that think we do NOT own ourselves.
    That would be me. I think the concept of owning oneself is fine, but unnecessary. It's not an option between owning yourself or someone else owning you, but it also includes the idea that nobody owns anybody. Ownership is an artificial concept. Nobody really owns anything, at best, we temporarily control it.

    Really, this whole self-ownership thing is just a ploy to make rationalizing natural rights easier. It's an attempt to define them into existence. It fails.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  10. #380
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyBurns View Post
    Ummm posting that actually hurt your argument lmao... But okay... I'm not seeing how protection of persons and property has anything to do with altruism...
    Let's double-check that original post, shall we???
    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    We should shoot for a social order in which everyone is free to act in any way he wishes as long as he doesn't harm others or their property. This ensures the maximum freedom not just for some, but for all.
    Nope! No "protection" requirement listed. That still leaves anarchy and anarchy/communism as viable options given the parameters above.



    Lying about the requirements then arguing that I'm not meeting them.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-21-12 at 09:40 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
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