View Poll Results: Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

Voters
50. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes (should)

    37 74.00%
  • Yes (shouldn't)

    0 0%
  • No (should)

    4 8.00%
  • No (shouldn't)

    9 18.00%
Page 35 of 65 FirstFirst ... 25333435363745 ... LastLast
Results 341 to 350 of 645

Thread: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

  1. #341
    Student
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-27-12 @ 11:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    203

    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    None of those definitions say anything against my argument, You still ARE yourself, making the question of self ownership logically invalid.
    So when i am enslaved by society i will no longer be myself? Thats not the argument now is it? Slaves can still be themselves but they are indeed prohibited! Do you understand if i own myself no one can own me, when protected by individual rights, or dare i say property rights, because i do indeed own my body not you, you have no right to tell me what i can do with my body, nor make me work for the common good! Are you slowly grasping this concept or will you continue to argue a flawed argument

  2. #342
    Student
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Louisiana
    Last Seen
    07-27-12 @ 11:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    203

    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Well Capitalism prevents me from having a say in tons and tons of different economic things that affect me, I'd say the workers at Foxcon factories don't have too much freedom, most workers are forced to give up their freedom for most of the day so they can get a peice of the wealth they produce, most people who can't afford property are forced to give up some freedom in order to have a place to live.

    If you got rid of private capitalist property, and evyerone had a say over economic issues that effected them, you'd have tons more freedom.

    Let me give you an example.

    Libertarian have no philisophical problems with a Pullman style town (the capitalist basically owns everything in the town, the stores the housind the main factory and so on), simple because its private property, even though it ends up being a tyranny, but make all that stuff democratic libertarians have a problem with it because it turns into "government." Even though the latter gives more freedom to more people.



    I wish to live in a social order where private capitalist property (distinct from possession) is public, and things that effect the public are accountable to the public, and economic activity is done democratically (since economic activity is by definition social), if your claim to property ends up making things worse for the majority of people in an area, I want that property to be accountable to those people.

    BTW private capitalist property hasn't always been around, you've had tons of societies without it.
    What freedoms are they forced to give up, i hear ideological thoughts but no real examples

    Edit: sorry didnt notice your example, wait it still wasnt an example
    Last edited by LibertyBurns; 06-20-12 at 06:03 AM.

  3. #343
    Sage
    RGacky3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Last Seen
    08-25-15 @ 03:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    9,570

    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    So when i am enslaved by society i will no longer be myself? Thats not the argument now is it? Slaves can still be themselves but they are indeed prohibited! Do you understand if i own myself no one can own me, when protected by individual rights, or dare i say property rights, because i do indeed own my body not you, you have no right to tell me what i can do with my body, nor make me work for the common good! Are you slowly grasping this concept or will you continue to argue a flawed argument
    No you are still yourself, and you still actually own yourself, your just being coerced ... its like being robbed at gunpoint, your relationship to yourself hasn't changed.

    no one CAN own you, slavery is unjustified, its not real ownership.

    If you won your own body, who are you? You ARE your body.

    No I don't have a right to tell you what to do with your body nor have a right to make you do anything you donj't want to do, but you don't need self ownership for that, you ARE yourself, that just individual autonomy, there is no property relation here, its a whole different thing.

  4. #344
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Penn's Woods
    Last Seen
    09-01-12 @ 07:09 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,984

    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I wish to live in a social order where private capitalist property (distinct from possession) is public, and things that effect the public are accountable to the public, and economic activity is done democratically (since economic activity is by definition social), if your claim to property ends up making things worse for the majority of people in an area, I want that property to be accountable to those people.

    BTW private capitalist property hasn't always been around, you've had tons of societies without it.
    So you're saying that you want to live in a society in which property (distinct from possession) is owned by the government?

  5. #345
    Sage
    RGacky3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Last Seen
    08-25-15 @ 03:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    9,570

    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    So you're saying that you want to live in a society in which property (distinct from possession) is owned by the government?
    No ....

    Where di I say that+

    What freedoms are they forced to give up, i hear ideological thoughts but no real examples
    I just gave you examples, the freedom to have the product of your labor, freedom of movement, freedom of what to do with your time, freedom of having a say in things that effect you.

    Private Capitalist property is a STATE INSTITUTION.

  6. #346
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Penn's Woods
    Last Seen
    09-01-12 @ 07:09 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,984

    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    No ....

    Where di I say that+
    Perhaps I misunderstood you when you wrote:

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I wish to live in a social order where private capitalist property (distinct from possession) is public...
    When you say you want to live in a social order where private capitalist property (distinct from possession) is public, I thought you meant owned by the government. So you're saying that this public capitalist property would be owned privately? I guess I'm somewhat confused by the use of your term public. Do you mean "the government" or do you mean "private individuals or groups of private individuals"?

  7. #347
    Sage
    RGacky3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Last Seen
    08-25-15 @ 03:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    9,570

    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    I'm using teh term public braodly, it could mean the community, it could mean the government, it could mean all the workers at a workplace, I basically mean accountable to the people that are effected by something.

  8. #348
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Penn's Woods
    Last Seen
    09-01-12 @ 07:09 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,984

    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I'm using teh term public braodly, it could mean the community, it could mean the government, it could mean all the workers at a workplace, I basically mean accountable to the people that are effected by something.
    So my original point was that we should shoot for a social order in which everyone is free to act in any way he wishes as long as he doesn't harm others or their property. This ensures the maximum freedom not just for some, but for all.

    This still seems like a valid goal. Let's say a group of workers owns a factory. We would not want some robbers to come and steal their inventory or machines would we? Their property ought to be protected by law should it not? Or let's say a community group owns a playground. The law should protect their property rights against a group of vandals who would damage or steal the playground equipment, no? Or if you own a car, the law should protect that car from theft or damage form others, correct?

    Property is essential for survival. The law should protect property against theft and damage.

  9. #349
    Sage
    RGacky3's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Last Seen
    08-25-15 @ 03:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    9,570

    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    What I'm saying is that property is not absolute and that it should be accountable to the community, if a group of robbers or vandals try and destory or take equipment, then yeah, you defend it, but that doesn't mean you need private capitalist property laws for that.

  10. #350
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Penn's Woods
    Last Seen
    09-01-12 @ 07:09 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,984

    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    What I'm saying is that property is not absolute and that it should be accountable to the community, if a group of robbers or vandals try and destory or take equipment, then yeah, you defend it, but that doesn't mean you need private capitalist property laws for that.
    If a group of workers owns a factory, isn't the factory their private property? If they own inventory isn't that inventory their private property? When one group of workers sells a truckload of wheat to another group of workers that owns a mill, doesn't there have to be laws establishing the procedures for the transfer of ownership from one group to another?

    The fact that something is owned by a group does not mean it's not privately owned. It just means that ownership is shared. Unless the government owns the property, it is still private property - it is just owned by a group of individuals as opposed to a single individual.

    It seems you are not arguing against the idea of property, but you are arguing that group ownership is preferable to individual ownership.

Page 35 of 65 FirstFirst ... 25333435363745 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •