View Poll Results: Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

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  • Yes (should)

    37 74.00%
  • Yes (shouldn't)

    0 0%
  • No (should)

    4 8.00%
  • No (shouldn't)

    9 18.00%
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Thread: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

  1. #331
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    What libertarians want to do is just hand over the power from the public sector to the private economic power base, thus giving the majority of the people less say over what happens in their lives.

    Basically they want to replace publically accountable power with tyrannical private power.
    I don't think most libertarians want to do this, but are naive enough to think it won't happen.

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You guys always have these funny definitions of freedom. Anarchy has the most "freedom" as you mean freedom. Should we shoot for that?
    We should shoot for a social order in which everyone is free to act in any way he wishes as long as he doesn't harm others or their property. This ensures the maximum freedom not just for some, but for all.

  3. #333
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I have no doubt that there are some libertarians who are liberal on some social issues.

    For me, the defining issue of the 21st century is a clear one: what will be the role of the government in the USA? Most libertarians, especially right libertarians, have a view of the role of government that would effectively take us back to the era of the Gilded Age 1800's.

    I can think of far fewer ways to destroy American and its people that a course of that nature.
    Some? Our presidential candidate is exactly what i just stated, socially liberal yet fiscally conservative. Just cause you want libertarians to fit your bill, does not make it so.

    Let me ask you this one question, if you dont mind, when was the idea of america actually created, freedom wise i say... Also when did this pick up traction around the world? And i geuss one more, when was the greatest growth in the united states?

    Edit: was supposed to be one hah couldnt help it though
    Last edited by LibertyBurns; 06-20-12 at 07:30 AM.

  4. #334
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    We should shoot for a social order in which everyone is free to act in any way he wishes as long as he doesn't harm others or their property. This ensures the maximum freedom not just for some, but for all.
    Why should property be included in that, freedom just means the ability to do things you want, many times private capitalist property hinders freedom for most people.

  5. #335
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Its a false question, you ARE yourself, that question is circular, its like asking is water wet?

    The whole concept of ownership is depends on a seperation between the owner and the thing owned. The only way self-ownership works is if you seperate your ego or soul from your body, but given that for all intents and purposes we ARE our body, self-ownershiip is a confused and rediculous concept.

    You ARE yourself.
    You dont know the definitions to the words your using is the problem...

    Ownership: 1 the state, relation, or fact of being
    2 a group or organization of owners

    There are a lot in this one hah the most relevant though

    Property: 2a something owned or possessed

    Own: adjective 1 belonging to oneself or itself

    Noun: to have or hold as property: possess

    There are a lot of good ones in own but i only need the one.

  6. #336
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Ownership: 1 the state, relation, or fact of being
    2 a group or organization of owners

    There are a lot in this one hah the most relevant though

    Property: 2a something owned or possessed

    Own: adjective 1 belonging to oneself or itself

    Noun: to have or hold as property: possess

    There are a lot of good ones in own but i only need the one.
    None of those definitions say anything against my argument, You still ARE yourself, making the question of self ownership logically invalid.

  7. #337
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Why should property be included in that, freedom just means the ability to do things you want, many times private capitalist property hinders freedom for most people.
    Tell me how? Also lets compare private and government hinderances to freedom

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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Why should property be included in that, freedom just means the ability to do things you want, many times private capitalist property hinders freedom for most people.
    Do you wish for a social order in which people may take your property? How would you ensure your survival in such a situation with no resources to live on?

  9. #339
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I don't think most libertarians want to do this, but are naive enough to think it won't happen.
    I agree with the first part and for you to think we dont know his couod happen is extreme ignorance... If we fight the society backed governemt what do you think we would do to a corrupt corporation... Also please do not put capitalism in this convo, even though it may further your cause to the ignorant masses

  10. #340
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Tell me how? Also lets compare private and government hinderances to freedom
    Well Capitalism prevents me from having a say in tons and tons of different economic things that affect me, I'd say the workers at Foxcon factories don't have too much freedom, most workers are forced to give up their freedom for most of the day so they can get a peice of the wealth they produce, most people who can't afford property are forced to give up some freedom in order to have a place to live.

    If you got rid of private capitalist property, and evyerone had a say over economic issues that effected them, you'd have tons more freedom.

    Let me give you an example.

    Libertarian have no philisophical problems with a Pullman style town (the capitalist basically owns everything in the town, the stores the housind the main factory and so on), simple because its private property, even though it ends up being a tyranny, but make all that stuff democratic libertarians have a problem with it because it turns into "government." Even though the latter gives more freedom to more people.

    Do you wish for a social order in which people may take your property? How would you ensure your survival in such a situation with no resources to live on?
    I wish to live in a social order where private capitalist property (distinct from possession) is public, and things that effect the public are accountable to the public, and economic activity is done democratically (since economic activity is by definition social), if your claim to property ends up making things worse for the majority of people in an area, I want that property to be accountable to those people.

    BTW private capitalist property hasn't always been around, you've had tons of societies without it.

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