View Poll Results: Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

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  • Yes (should)

    37 74.00%
  • Yes (shouldn't)

    0 0%
  • No (should)

    4 8.00%
  • No (shouldn't)

    9 18.00%
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Thread: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

  1. #271
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I agree. A persons that consents to sell their labor to someone else still owns their own self. It's little different than working for someone or signing a contract to work for certain number of years in exchange for wages or salary or stock options. Indentured servants were brought over to the US to work a certain number of years for private individuals in exchange for their ship's passage and their room and board. When their contract expired they were free to go work for whoever or even start their own business.
    After a period of time, they got land too. It was a sweet deal that paid off if they survived. Jamestown was a hell-hole by every meaning of the term.
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  2. #272
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Yes, you've made this assertion before. Provide your proof, and we can judge whether your claim is true.


    Here is what I said

    What I keep telling you - and what you keep avoiding like the plague - is that this libertarian construct was most likely built from the conclusion backwards.

    You do understand the term MOST LIKELY is a judgment on my part based on an understanding of the situation but which cannot be proved nor disproved with actual evidence because that is not available to me..... don't you?
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  3. #273
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    I stated this about libertarians

    What I have found over the years is that the radical right uses words like FREEDOM and LIBERTY the way a lounge lizard uses the word LOVE fifteen minutes before the bar closes. And their end goal is exactly the same.
    Centinel replied with this follow up

    Interesting. What would you say is their goal?
    To achieve the climax of their desires.
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  4. #274
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post

    and how in the world is it rightist interpretation when I learned it from a leftist?
    People can use things or tactics from any variety of sources. That is no secret.
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  5. #275
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    gonna provide a real argument anytime soon?.. or are we stuck with your paranoid ramblings?
    Again, you want us to get bogged down in examing a tree when some of us want to see the entire forest.

    That itself is very revealing of both your tactics and the motives behind them.
    Last edited by haymarket; 06-19-12 at 10:03 AM.
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  6. #276
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Yes, haymarket, ethical principles have implications and consequences. You don't like that, I know, because you are very opposed to people being free.
    Again with the "ownership is an ethical principal" thing?!?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-19-12 at 12:06 PM.
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  7. #277
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That is interesting in its ignorance but besides that, its completely not worth noting. Anyone that thinks it was Locke needs to ignore Jefferson himself.
    And where did Jefferson talk about this phrase and it's meaning? Or is this more crap you're interpreting and trying to sell as fact?
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  8. #278
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Yes, you've made this assertion before. Provide your proof, and we can judge whether your claim is true.
    All you need for that is to read Locke. To push forward with his ideals he had to define a "natural" state of ownership outside of society. The only option Locke had was to show self ownership.

    Essentially, Locke started with the assumption that people, not just the monarch, had a right to property and he backed into the natural ownership of self as the only starting point available to prove his other assertions.


    I could almost believe Locke except he excluded conquest as a means of transfer of property. Sorry, I tend to stick a little closer to natural reality than that.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-19-12 at 11:58 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #279
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Again with the "ownership is an ethical principal thing"?!?
    Of course. When they frame it that way it makes anyone going against it a dirty low-down amoral scumbag who would sell out his mother for a shot of heroin to they can get high and engage in child pornography.
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  10. #280
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    This stupid crap is just annoying. Don't you think its a bit strange that to believe in your theory you have to assume a bunch of things? Mason used the damn phrase and Jefferson admitted stealing it from him. This is NOT an open topic.
    It's open until you provide a reference to the contrary.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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