View Poll Results: Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

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  • Yes (should)

    37 74.00%
  • Yes (shouldn't)

    0 0%
  • No (should)

    4 8.00%
  • No (shouldn't)

    9 18.00%
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Thread: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

  1. #171
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    Human trafficking has no claim to authority since it's illegal.
    Today, sure. In the past, no. The claim was that nobody *CAN* own another. Clearly that's false. Stop dodging.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #172
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Today, sure. In the past, no. The claim was that nobody *CAN* own another. Clearly that's false. Stop dodging.
    Read post #169.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  3. #173
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    As I said earlier:

    Do I own myself as far as being my own property? No, because I am not property.

    Do I own myself as far as having control/power over myself? I have as much control and power over myself as I think a human being can in a universe where autonomy is impossible.

    It depends on the definition of "own." If you're talking property, no ownership. If you're talking about possessing your own thoughts, yes.
    So the the master of a slave does not have ownership of that person but, they do own them. That is only in a society that accepts people as property though? So a nation that rejects people as property cannot own a person? Nor can a nation with strong property rights protect their citizenry from being enslaved if they are considered property?

    Classical liberal thought in my opinion goes hand in hand with contracts, property rights, and the free voluntary trade between peoples.

  4. #174
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Why can't people be conceived as property? We could always change laws...
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  5. #175
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Ownership is now an "ethical principle"?!?
    No, but not damaging or taking what other people own is.

  6. #176
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    Read post #169.
    So, hypothetically, if someone comes up with a way to hypnotize or otherwise control your mind, they still will not "own" you?
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyBurns View Post
    So the the master of a slave does not have ownership of that person but, they do own them. That is only in a society that accepts people as property though? So a nation that rejects people as property cannot own a person? Nor can a nation with strong property rights protect their citizenry from being enslaved if they are considered property?

    Classical liberal thought in my opinion goes hand in hand with contracts, property rights, and the free voluntary trade between peoples.
    I dont really like the way people are so scared of the term property. Its not that scary lol

  8. #178
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    So, hypothetically, if someone comes up with a way to hypnotize or otherwise control your mind, they still will not "own" you?
    I think this type of "ownership" is the Dollhouse sort of thing wherein they can actually remove your consciousness and insert something else into your body that they have programmed for certain ends.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  9. #179
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyBurns View Post
    So the the master of a slave does not have ownership of that person but, they do own them. That is only in a society that accepts people as property though? So a nation that rejects people as property cannot own a person? Nor can a nation with strong property rights protect their citizenry from being enslaved if they are considered property?

    Classical liberal thought in my opinion goes hand in hand with contracts, property rights, and the free voluntary trade between peoples.
    Property is a social construct. Therefore, the only objects that are property are those deemed property by the society in question. In the US, people are not property. Consequently, I do not own myself in the sense that I am my own property.

  10. #180
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    Re: Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    That's a long, drawn out statement that is much more than - and in some ways contradicts - the simple definition he used earlier: Would you care to defend his definition and how it applies to the ownership of a human being as an "ethical principle"?
    Ownership is a social convention. Ownership simply means that one has the exclusive right to use a particular thing. I own my car, so I may use it to the exclusion of others.

    With regard to self-ownership, each of us own his or her own body, and nobody else does. Nobody is the property of another.

    I think this thread has demonstrated that the use of the word "own" in this context is somewhat awkward and unusual. Perhaps there is a better way to describe the concept.

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