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Do you own yourself (self ownership)?

Do you own yourself (self ownership)? Should or shouldnt you own yourself?

  • Yes (should)

    Votes: 32 76.2%

  • Yes (shouldn't)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No (should)

    Votes: 3 7.1%

  • No (shouldn't)

    Votes: 7 16.7%
  • Total voters
    42
Centinel said:
I think you misunderstand. The ethical principle is that it is wrong to take or destroy what other people own.
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No one is going to voluntarily contribute to society. It might work that way for awhile but it's not a stable solution. That way leads to anarchy.
 
haymarket said:
No. I am simply judging right libertarians by their ends and their means.
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You do realize that libertarians are socially liberal but, fiscally conservative? Giving the most freedom possible
 
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LibertyBurns said:
You do realize that libertarians are socially liberal but, fiscally conservative? Giving the most freedom possibly
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That's not necessarily true. There are plenty of self-proclaimed Libertarians who oppose gay rights and abortion and drug legalization.

Conversely, there are libertarians, such as myself, who are more economically liberal.

And for being fiscally conservative, it does not follow that "more freedom" is achieved.
 
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LibertyBurns said:
You do realize that libertarians are socially liberal but, fiscally conservative? Giving the most freedom possible
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You guys always have these funny definitions of freedom. Anarchy has the most "freedom" as you mean freedom. Should we shoot for that?
 
RadicalModerate said:
That's not necessarily true. There are plenty of self-proclaimed Libertarians who oppose gay rights and abortion and drug legalization.

Conversely, there are libertarians, such as myself, who are more economically liberal.
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Oh there ar more than enough against abortion, this is true. And i myself am against it only to the extent in which a baby grows. You or anyone should grasp the meaning of what i say, if not i will explain but, i hope you are perceptive enough to understand. Gay rights, any libertarian against this is NOT libertarian haha. Drugs same thing... See self ownershipn is a libertarian must, even if they dont understand the concept. If i dont own myself, which is true at the moment, due to the fact i cant smoke a doobie or snort a line without gov. intervention and multiple incidents. I think haymarket is on the same page as us, to an extent that he believes every person can control himself, but he disagrees when it comes to property rights, he thinks that society/governemnt can take what you own, so in saying this, if you own yourself then it is up for grabs in the society/government that he supports.
 
MoSurveyor said:
You guys always have these funny definitions of freedom. Anarchy has the most "freedom" as you mean freedom. Should we shoot for that?
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Nooooo anarchy does not have the most freedom... If you listen to what i wrote anout feudalism, you woldnt be saying that... Thats where the first contacts came from, between powerful land owners and the peasantry for protection and/or food distribution. Yes, im against big government, but im not against government!
 
LibertyBurns said:
Nooooo anarchy does not have the most freedom... If you listen to what i wrote anout feudalism, you woldnt be saying that... Thats where the first contacts came from, between powerful land owners and the peasantry for protection and/or food distribution. Yes, im against big government, but im not against government!
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umm, yes, anarchy does provide for the most freedom....but as a matter of practical application, it also allows for the most encroachments upon that freedom.


to me, Anarchists are a lot like Communists/Socialists...incredibly ignorant of human nature

Minachism, that's where it's at.. maximum protected freedom.
 
LibertyBurns said:
Nooooo anarchy does not have the most freedom... If you listen to what i wrote anout feudalism, you woldnt be saying that... Thats where the first contacts came from, between powerful land owners and the peasantry for protection and/or food distribution. Yes, im against big government, but im not against government!
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Then you're stuck with taxes in one form or another because no government can work without money.
 
Thrilla said:
umm, yes, anarchy does provide for the most freedom....but as a matter of practical application, it also allows for the most encroachments upon that freedom.


to me, Anarchists are a lot like Communists/Socialists...incredibly ignorant of human nature

Minachism, that's where it's at.. maximum protected freedom.
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Yiou say that, but feudalism came by the way of contracts between land owners and the peasantry against attacks from aggression... I can actually agree with neo liberals in this aspect.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Then you're stuck with taxes in one form or another because no government can work without money.
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Did you not see the comment, i am not against government? Or do you just not wish to see what is actually there? Reread my comments, then comment...
 
LibertyBurns said:
Did you not see the comment, i am not against government? Or do you just not wish to see what is actually there? Reread my comments, then comment...
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My response was to that statement. What part do you think I missed?


Ed:
Or maybe you have no problem with taxation? Is that what you're saying?
 
Thrilla said:
umm, yes, anarchy does provide for the most freedom....but as a matter of practical application, it also allows for the most encroachments upon that freedom.


to me, Anarchists are a lot like Communists/Socialists...incredibly ignorant of human nature

Minachism, that's where it's at.. maximum protected freedom.
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I don't believe a minarch would be stable.
 
MoSurveyor said:
My response was to that statement. What part do you think I missed?


Ed:
Or maybe you have no problem with taxation? Is that what you're saying?
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You said im against taxes right? Did i ever say i was? No... It all depends on what the taxes are used for, taxation is a form of stealing unless all parties agree. Is this true in your opinion? Taking away from from someone with no permission.
 
LibertyBurns said:
You said im against taxes right? Did i ever say i was? No... It all depends on what the taxes are used for, taxation is a form of stealing unless all parties agree. Is this true in your opinion? Taking away from from someone with no permission.
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When you answer this make sure you think hard, dont want you sounding like haymarket and his unreasonable philosophy
 
LibertyBurns said:
You said im against taxes right? Did i ever say i was? No... It all depends on what the taxes are used for, taxation is a form of stealing unless all parties agree. Is this true in your opinion? Taking away from from someone with no permission.
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So you're saying "taxes" have to be voluntary? To me that isn't taxation - it's donations.
 
MoSurveyor said:
So you're saying "taxes" have to be voluntary? To me that isn't taxation - it's donations.
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Your so awsome! Exactly voluntary donations are the ultimate goal in libertarianism!!! Instead of forcing morals you actually, eventually see real good morals... You are so awsome to point this out!!!!
 
LibertyBurns said:
You said im against taxes right? Did i ever say i was? No... It all depends on what the taxes are used for, taxation is a form of stealing unless all parties agree. Is this true in your opinion? Taking away from from someone with no permission.
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And, no, I did not say you were against taxes. Typically Libertarians ARE against taxes so I assumed you were but I did not say that.

You will note I then specifically asked if you had no problem with taxation.
 
LibertyBurns said:
Your so awsome! Exactly voluntary donations are the ultimate goal in libertarianism!!! Instead of forcing morals you actually, eventually see real good morals... You are so awsome to point this out!!!!
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But like I just posted, government will not work without taxation. Donations are not the same thing.
 
LibertyBurns said:
Why doesnt minarchy work? Id like to hear your opinion, id like to know your political leaning just for knowledge of different ideology objections to my own.
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I really don't fit into a convenient political box. If I did I would gladly show it.
 
MoSurveyor said:
And, no, I did not say you were against taxes. Typically Libertarians ARE against taxes so I assumed you were but I did not say that.

You will note I then specifically asked if you had no problem with taxation.
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I am glad you at least understood this, its a misconception about libertarians, we just believe that government should be held within a certain scope.
 
MoSurveyor said:
I really don't fit into a convenient political box. If I did I would gladly show it.
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I appreciate your frankness, ive posted more between this that you have not commented on, that im sure you can easily agree with.

319 is a good example
 
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haymarket said:
Kill
rape
plunder
OH MY! :shock:

I don't remember any poster advocating that. YOu can take the demonic strawman back into the castle and have Dr. Frankenstein work on his some more.
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Government's do all of the above. There are plenty of mass-graves to testify to this fact.
 
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