View Poll Results: Most anti-libertarian President?

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  • Abraham Lincoln

    10 18.18%
  • Woodrow Wilson

    6 10.91%
  • Franklin Roosevelt

    20 36.36%
  • Theodore Roosevelt

    0 0%
  • Lyndon Johnson

    1 1.82%
  • George W. Bush

    7 12.73%
  • Richard Nixon

    2 3.64%
  • Herbert Hoover

    2 3.64%
  • Barack Obama

    4 7.27%
  • Other

    3 5.45%
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Thread: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

  1. #61
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    This whole idea of "self ownership" is merely semantic gymnastics being employed by ideological extremists to further an extremist agenda. It is nonsense as I previously pointed out.
    Brilliant. You oppose slavery, yet reject the only moral argument against it. You never disappoint.

  2. #62
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Its nonsense pure and simple. You own you. What garbage. When did you buy you? Do you have a deed? Who did you buy you from? What was the sale price? Can you sell you to someone else?

    Nobody owns you including you. You are a person who was born. You are not property.

    Is this so hard to understand?

    On second thought, don't answer that part.

    As to who is more statist or authoritarian, its like being pregnant. Either you are or you are not. You support a state as necessary. I do also. You accept the authority of a state in certain matters. I do too.

    Please do not try to pretend that you are the only virgin in the whorehouse.
    as I said, I'm unsurprised you see self-ownership as nonsense... but I don't mind that you do, I'm just glad that you are in the severe minority and have been throughout American history.

    you might not own yourself, but I claim supreme sovereignty over my body, my thoughts, my choices, and my actions...... simply put.. I am mine,I am not yours.
    I do, however, contract or consent to sanctions imposed upon my sovereignty in differing cases , such as when I violate another persons rights.


    and no, it's not like being pregnant.. that's asinine.
    there is a whole world in between anarchy and totalitarianism...you and me are not the same.

    I support the state, in limited and specific capacities, as desirable.. not necessary.

  3. #63
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Brilliant. You oppose slavery, yet reject the only moral argument against it. You never disappoint.
    the entertainment value alone is worth it...

  4. #64
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    heh The I own myself theory again...sorry you dont own yourself and you never have. You own little pieces that your ALLOWED to own. You were never allowed to do whatever you wanted to do anywhere in history. Theres been laws, duties, taxs and tithing on you and what you own since the beginning of our republic.
    Libertarians Thank God are the minority and leaders like the two Pauls are considered nuts by most americans standards approx 90% The kid is even more intensely insane than his father.
    Libertarians few very good ideas and ideals are overridden their so many extemes. America will always reject them in total...little pieces will continue to be embraced.
    Sorry Libertarians this isnt pre revolution where you can go into the wilderness and live all by yourself and do whatever you choose to do...Society has gotten crowded there is no place to go for solitude except maybe your bathroom, your just going to have to keep on sharing yourself and what you have, just like you've always done and you parents and grandparents before you had to do...

  5. #65
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But yet it seems as regular as night following day that on these sites when we discuss actual real honest to goodness American slavery in practice, we find that self indentified libertarians find a way to loudly advocate for the South and defend their actions of a century and a half ago?
    I rarely, if ever, see a libertarian defending slavery... slavery ,again,is categorically rejected by libertarianism... I do not condone slavery whatsoever, it is only shadowed ,in being repugnant, by murder.

    I do, however, find it common for libertarians to defend the south's decision and right to secede....i'm one of them myself.

    some are able to separate the issues of secession and slavery.. others, not so much.

  6. #66
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    heh The I own myself theory again...sorry you dont own yourself and you never have. You own little pieces that your ALLOWED to own. You were never allowed to do whatever you wanted to do anywhere in history. Theres been laws, duties, taxs and tithing on you and what you own since the beginning of our republic.
    Libertarians Thank God are the minority and leaders like the two Pauls are considered nuts by most americans standards approx 90% The kid is even more intensely insane than his father.
    Libertarians few very good ideas and ideals are overridden their so many extemes. America will always reject them in total...little pieces will continue to be embraced.
    Sorry Libertarians this isnt pre revolution where you can go into the wilderness and live all by yourself and do whatever you choose to do...Society has gotten crowded there is no place to go for solitude except maybe your bathroom, your just going to have to keep on sharing yourself and what you have, just like you've always done and you parents and grandparents before you had to do...
    so you too reject self ownership?... interesting.

    2 professional agents of the state rejecting self ownership.. whodathunk it

    I wonder if y'all realize that by rejecting the concept of self ownership, you necessarily reject the concept of the Social Contract... ponder that for a moment.


    what "extremes" are you talking about in terms of libertarians?

  7. #67
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    I rarely, if ever, see a libertarian defending slavery... slavery ,again,is categorically rejected by libertarianism... I do not condone slavery whatsoever, it is only shadowed ,in being repugnant, by murder.

    I do, however, find it common for libertarians to defend the south's decision and right to secede....i'm one of them myself.

    some are able to separate the issues of secession and slavery.. others, not so much.

    Doesnt matter what anyone believes...or is able to separate...slavery nor secession isnt happening in our lifetime and way beyond.
    Libertarians expend way to much energy and time on aint never gonna happen things...all wishful thinking

  8. #68
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    heh The I own myself theory again...sorry you dont own yourself and you never have. You own little pieces that your ALLOWED to own. You were never allowed to do whatever you wanted to do anywhere in history. Theres been laws, duties, taxs and tithing on you and what you own since the beginning of our republic.
    Libertarians Thank God are the minority and leaders like the two Pauls are considered nuts by most americans standards approx 90% The kid is even more intensely insane than his father.
    Libertarians few very good ideas and ideals are overridden their so many extemes. America will always reject them in total...little pieces will continue to be embraced.
    Sorry Libertarians this isnt pre revolution where you can go into the wilderness and live all by yourself and do whatever you choose to do...Society has gotten crowded there is no place to go for solitude except maybe your bathroom, your just going to have to keep on sharing yourself and what you have, just like you've always done and you parents and grandparents before you had to do...
    You just dont understand the concept of self-ownership. Like it or not, it is the very basis for concepts like rights and justice. If you dont have a claim (own yourself) on your own body and mind, you are abdicating it to whoever has the power to take it from you. You want the state to own you. So be it. But you have no authority to own me.

  9. #69
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Doesnt matter what anyone believes...or is able to separate...slavery nor secession isnt happening in our lifetime and way beyond.
    Libertarians expend way to much energy and time on aint never gonna happen things...all wishful thinking
    People concerned with liberty spend their time defending the principles of liberty against those who wish to deprive them of it.

  10. #70
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Doesnt matter what anyone believes...or is able to separate...slavery nor secession isnt happening in our lifetime and way beyond.
    Libertarians expend way to much energy and time on aint never gonna happen things...all wishful thinking

    stating that slavery ( the chattel variety) and secession will never occur again is a matter of wishful thinking in itself.

    it's an exercise in debate dude.. it's an interesting topic for many.. and it's part of our history... it's good to explore the issues.
    any time you can learn something, it's not a waste of time or energy.

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