View Poll Results: Most anti-libertarian President?

Voters
55. You may not vote on this poll
  • Abraham Lincoln

    10 18.18%
  • Woodrow Wilson

    6 10.91%
  • Franklin Roosevelt

    20 36.36%
  • Theodore Roosevelt

    0 0%
  • Lyndon Johnson

    1 1.82%
  • George W. Bush

    7 12.73%
  • Richard Nixon

    2 3.64%
  • Herbert Hoover

    2 3.64%
  • Barack Obama

    4 7.27%
  • Other

    3 5.45%
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Thread: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

  1. #51
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    It means people aren't property.
    I wish that were true; but there are millions( even billions) who disagree.
    We, of course, are more civilized than that....I think.

  2. #52
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Which "first four words"
    Libertarians are against slavery. You just went on ranting about how slavery exist, ummm yea nor did i disclaim that it did or does exist...

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I could not care less if libertarians are for or against anything. What they believe or do not believe is irrelevant.
    Okay...

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What utter poppcock. Own yourself? Nonsense. Obviously people were owned and plenty of them. Tell them how they owned themselves so thus nobody could have owned them.

    You talk nonsense. Reality speaks louder than all the libertarians combined.

    This is merely another example of some libertarian whacko coming up with an axiom that is intended to justify knockignng down all the dominoes that he intends to place after it.

    As in , of course you own yourself, so thus... blah blah blah blah blah.
    Again, your ranting about slavery. No one denies its existance you buffoon. This is a philosophy that tries to fight against your pro slavery ideology.


    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You do NOT get to make choices in all spheres of life as long as you live in a society with others. Some of those choices are made for you by others. That is the way our society works. That is the way our government works. And if you refuse to abide by that and it means using aggression upon you- cover up your ass because its gonna get aggressed upon. If you don't like that arrangement, you have the perfect right to withdraw from it and go elsewhere just like the Puritans did in the 1600's.
    Is this good? Do you or anyone else believe that your choices should be made by others? When our society dictates that slavery, genocide, forced labor, censorship of all speech, etc, is okay, you will just follow the herd?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I do imagine this is the sort of nonsense that keeps college sophomores who have drunk too much red bull up at 3 am. Everybody else - with the noted exception of libertarians - can just flush it where it belongs.
    Freedom = nonsense, sorry if i disagree with ya sheep...

  3. #53
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    I wish that were true; but there are millions( even billions) who disagree.
    We, of course, are more civilized than that....I think.
    Its a philosophy that should be adored, sadly your right, many do disagree.

  4. #54
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyBurns View Post
    Again, your ranting about slavery. No one denies its existance you buffoon. This is a philosophy that tries to fight against your pro slavery ideology.



    Here is a direct quote from you.

    You own yourself so obviously no one can own you.
    That is a pretty sweeping statement that denies any person can own another person. And that is the definition of slavery.

    So which is it? If you admit the existence of slavery, that somebody can indeed own you and that renders your precious libertarian axiom to have less utilitarian value than a fifty pound bag of garden manure.

    Perhaps if you call me some more third grade level names like you did in your recent post, the wisdom may come to you?
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  5. #55
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Here is a direct quote from you.



    That is a pretty sweeping statement that denies any person can own another person. And that is the definition of slavery.

    So which is it? If you admit the existence of slavery, that somebody can indeed own you and that renders your precious libertarian axiom to have less utilitarian value than a fifty pound bag of garden manure.

    Perhaps if you call me some more third grade level names like you did in your recent post, the wisdom may come to you?

    i'm pretty sure his statement was dealing in moral judgements.

    sure, it's possible to own a slave.... but owning a slave is always morally wrong, as it necessitates a multitude of rights denials ( that's where self ownership comes in)

    if you disavow self ownership, you disavow individual rights... it's as simple as that.

    I'm not surprised you see self ownership as "poppycock"... it makes the life of an authoritarian statist kinda difficult.

  6. #56
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    i'm pretty sure his statement was dealing in moral judgements.

    sure, it's possible to own a slave.... but owning a slave is always morally wrong, as it necessitates a multitude of rights denials ( that's where self ownership comes in)

    if you disavow self ownership, you disavow individual rights... it's as simple as that.

    I'm not surprised you see self ownership as "poppycock"... it makes the life of an authoritarian statist kinda difficult.
    Then he should have said it like you said it and not as he said it.

    This whole idea of "self ownership" is merely semantic gymnastics being employed by ideological extremists to further an extremist agenda. It is nonsense as I previously pointed out.

    I have no idea what you mean when you mention "authoritarian statist". What does that mean and who are you referring to? I am no more an authoritatian statist than you are. Or did you convert to anarchism over night?
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  7. #57
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    If you own a man's work, you own the man. Libertarians push this illusion about choice because they want to hide from themselves the reality that it's all about power.
    it is all about power... where folks differ is in their beliefs over where that power should rest and where it is derived from.
    for some, it's in the individual.. for others, it's in the mythical entity called society... for others, it's in the state.

    libertarianism categorically rejects slavery... and yet here are the contemporary liberals arguing about why that's wrong
    politics never ceases to amaze me.

  8. #58
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Then he should have said it like you said it and not as he said it.

    This whole idea of "self ownership" is merely semantic gymnastics being employed by ideological extremists to further an extremist agenda. It is nonsense as I previously pointed out.

    I have no idea what you mean when you mention "authoritarian statist". What does that mean and who are you referring to? I am no more an authoritatian statist than you are. Or did you convert to anarchism over night?
    self ownership is the basis for all individual rights.... but yes, I do agree that it's "extremist" to believe in such things nowadays, and i'm completely unsurprised you reject self ownership as valid and proper.


    you are vastly more authoritarian and statist than I, your arguments bear that out time and time again... and no, i'm not an anarchist. I can, however, be described as a minarchist.

  9. #59
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post

    libertarianism categorically rejects slavery... and yet here are the contemporary liberals arguing about why that's wrong
    politics never ceases to amaze me.
    But yet it seems as regular as night following day that on these sites when we discuss actual real honest to goodness American slavery in practice, we find that self indentified libertarians find a way to loudly advocate for the South and defend their actions of a century and a half ago?
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  10. #60
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    Re: Most anti-libertarian Presidents

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    self ownership is the basis for all individual rights.... but yes, I do agree that it's "extremist" to believe in such things nowadays, and i'm completely unsurprised you reject self ownership as valid and proper.


    you are vastly more authoritarian and statist than I, your arguments bear that out time and time again... and no, i'm not an anarchist. I can, however, be described as a minarchist.
    Its nonsense pure and simple. You own you. What garbage. When did you buy you? Do you have a deed? Who did you buy you from? What was the sale price? Can you sell you to someone else?

    Nobody owns you including you. You are a person who was born. You are not property.

    Is this so hard to understand?

    On second thought, don't answer that part.

    As to who is more statist or authoritarian, its like being pregnant. Either you are or you are not. You support a state as necessary. I do also. You accept the authority of a state in certain matters. I do too.

    Please do not try to pretend that you are the only virgin in the whorehouse.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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