View Poll Results: Worst US President

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  • Warren G. Harding

    4 5.06%
  • Andrew Johnson

    5 6.33%
  • James Buchanan

    7 8.86%
  • Herbert Hoover

    2 2.53%
  • Franklin Pierce

    2 2.53%
  • Ulysses S. Grant

    2 2.53%
  • Franklin Roosevelt

    9 11.39%
  • Barack Obama

    12 15.19%
  • George W. Bush

    21 26.58%
  • Other

    15 18.99%
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Thread: Worst US President?

  1. #61
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    Re: Worst US President?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    FDR was not a bad president in terms of getting stuff done-in fact he was an excellent president in achieving his goals. Sadly his goals were incredibly deleterious to the concept of a federal system where the states and the federal government were semi-equal partners and the federal government only had the powers specifically delegated to it

    So FDR is far different than incompetent people like Harding or Grant or Carter. HE was not corrupt like Harding, or Grant's administration. But like Wilson before him-he demanded that the constitution be mutated, tortured, mutilated and mashed in order to get his agenda passed.
    More to the point, I think, is that he succeeded in effectively overturning large portions of the limits that the Constitution intended to place on the federal government, allowing the federal government to grow far outside of its legitimate role. And what he started then has continued ever since then; as our federal government has grown more and more out of control.


    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    It all depends how you depict worst-whch is why I noted he is very different than real failures like Harding or carter
    I think it's fair to say that FDR's “success” did much, much, much more harm to this country than did these other presidents' failures.
    Last edited by Bob Blaylock; 06-17-12 at 12:11 AM. Reason: A man without a forklift is nothing. May the Forks be with you.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Worst US President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    More to the point, I think, is that he succeeded in effectively overturning large portions of the limits that the Constitution intended to place on the federal government, allowing the federal government to grow far outside of its legitimate role. And what he started then has continued ever since then; as our federal government has grown more and more out of control.
    He introduced a mass of cancer cells and the malignancy has never looked back

  3. #63
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    Re: Worst US President?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    He introduced a mass of cancer cells and the malignancy has never looked back
    I applaud your analogy.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Worst US President?

    I voted for FDR. Perhaps if he were older, and his actions were not so recent, I wouldn't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    And LMAO @ people calling FDR our worst president ever. He only got us through arguably the toughest back-to-back challenges this nation has EVER faced. But since they can only see history through their tinted lenses, they'll try to rewrite history. (And conveniently ignore the president before him who flatly refused to clean up the mess.)
    Weird; I had always learned that Hoover had instituted tons of public programs and tripled the top income bracket tax rates to try to combat the great depression. I guess most people ignore Hoover because he was not as famous as FDR, but nonetheless, he certainty tried SOMETHING, the same something a lot of people suggest we try now.
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  5. #65
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    Re: Worst US President?

    +1 FDR for ruining the nation and throwing American citizens into concentration camps by executive order.

  6. #66
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    Re: Worst US President?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    +1 FDR for ruining the nation and throwing American citizens into concentration camps by executive order.
    I certainly agree about the Japanese internment camps.

    But ruining the nation? Are you kidding me? He won WW2. He took us out of the Great Depression. Virtually every highway in the country today was built during FDR's administration. He extended electricity to large parts of the country that didn't have it before. He established the foundations of the regulation of wall street...

    During his administration we went from being a second world country teetering down towards third world status and occupation by the Nazis to being perhaps the greatest economic and military powerhouse the world has ever seen. To describe that as ruining the country is so far beyond absurd that I don't even know what to say to it. It's totally insane to claim that. Abjectly disconnected from reality.
    Last edited by teamosil; 06-17-12 at 03:52 PM.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  7. #67
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    Re: Worst US President?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I certainly agree about the Japanese internment camps.

    But ruining the nation? Are you kidding me? He won WW2. He took us out of the Great Depression. Virtually every highway in the country today was built during FDR's administration. He extended electricity to large parts of the country that didn't have it before. He established the foundations of the regulation of wall street...

    During his administration we went from being a second world country teetering down towards third world status and occupation by the Nazis to being perhaps the greatest economic and military powerhouse the world has ever seen. To describe that as ruining the country is so far beyond absurd that I don't even know what to say to it. It's totally insane to claim that. Abjectly disconnected from reality.

    He didn't win WWII - that was Truman. And creating the REA (Rural Electrification Administration) also set us on course for the energy hole we're in today. Not to mention it was a model of the government program, created for a specific purpose, that sticks around eating tax payer money long after that purpose has been served. You know, the REA would come into town and talk the farmers into going on delivered electricity - all they had to do was to sign away their rights to ever self-generate. That's where I got my first wind turbine and 12/24/36 volt appliances - from an old barn in Missouri (there since the family had signed off to the REA).

    And the highway system - that was Ike. We were not a second world country spiraling down, and despite the propoganda of the time there was never any danger of the germans taking the US proper. Hell they couldn't even take Russia.

    Finally, the Great Depression. We were headed out of that as it was. FDR's initiatives may have helped, but again they may have also artificially delayed the recovery a bit too. Depends upon whose economic theories you buy into.

    It's like the Reagan presidency. Many lionize him, but they ignore the things about Reagan that the anti-Reagan folks rightfully bring up. The truth is somewhere in the middle. A great deal of a president's legacy is how people FEEL about him. We ignore the bad and the flaky stuff when we 'like' what we think we know of the guy.
    Last edited by clownboy; 06-17-12 at 04:19 PM.

  8. #68
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    Re: Worst US President?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I certainly agree about the Japanese internment camps.

    But ruining the nation? Are you kidding me? He won WW2. He took us out of the Great Depression. Virtually every highway in the country today was built during FDR's administration. He extended electricity to large parts of the country that didn't have it before. He established the foundations of the regulation of wall street...

    During his administration we went from being a second world country teetering down towards third world status and occupation by the Nazis to being perhaps the greatest economic and military powerhouse the world has ever seen. To describe that as ruining the country is so far beyond absurd that I don't even know what to say to it. It's totally insane to claim that. Abjectly disconnected from reality.
    Second world? Hardly. After WWI, the United States was always among the top five Great Powers.

    After September of 1940, a Nazi invasion of the United Kingdom would have been insanely idiotic, let alone one of the United States. I don't know where you're getting that idea from.

    To back up your claims of FDR omnipotence (winning WWII, saving us from the Depression...), you'd have to establish causation, not just correlation. You really haven't done that.
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    All this talk about "dominion over a third person" is libertarianistic goobledy-gook. "dominion over a third person" means that the 3rd person is "controlled", and our govt does not control people.

  9. #69
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    Re: Worst US President?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    He didn't win WWII - that was Truman.
    Absolutely false. The Nazis surrendered unconditionally less than one month after the end of FDR's presidency. Berlin fell just a few days after the end of FDR's term.

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    And creating the REA (Rural Electrification Administration) also set us on course for the energy hole we're in today. Not to mention it was a model of the government program, created for a specific purpose, that sticks around eating tax payer money long after that purpose has been served. You know, the REA would come into town and talk the farmers into going on delivered electricity - all they had to do was to sign away their rights to ever self-generate. That's where I got my first wind turbine and 12/24/36 volt appliances - from an old barn in Missouri (there since the family had signed off to the REA).
    I understand that your theories would lead you to believe that his approach would not have worked. But in fact it did. Large portions of the country didn't have electricity before and now they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    We were not a second world country spiraling down, and despite the propoganda of the time there was never any danger of the germans taking the US proper. Hell they couldn't even take Russia.
    We had widespread famine, here in the United States, in the early 30s. Estimates are that over 1 million Americans starved to death in that period. We lost roughly 30% of our entire GDP in just three years. How you can not consider that a second world country in a spiral totally baffles me.

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Finally, the Great Depression. We were headed out of that as it was. FDR's initiatives may have helped, but again they may have also artificially delayed the recovery a bit too. Depends upon whose economic theories you buy into.
    The lowest point our GDP hit was the last quarter of 1932. FDR took office in the first quarter of 1933.

    Theories are nice and all, but when they consistently fail to align with what happens in reality, they need to be discarded. Were you aware, for example, that even excluding FDR's spectacular results, the economy has grown by 2.78% on average ever since then when we've had Democratic presidents, but only 1.64% when we've had Republican presidents? Almost all Democrats have outperformed almost all Republicans.

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    It's like the Reagan presidency. Many lionize him, but they ignore the things about Reagan that the anti-Reagan folks rightfully bring up. The truth is somewhere in the middle. A great deal of a president's legacy is how people FEEL about him. We ignore the bad and the flaky stuff when we 'like' what we think we know of the guy.
    That's fair enough to be sure. Certainly there are some things about FDR that I don't approve of, and certainly his accomplishments can get inflated. But to say that he ruined the country?! That's just ridiculous. There is no president in modern history that has a stronger claim to bigger accomplishments than FDR does.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  10. #70
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    Re: Worst US President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    Second world? Hardly. After WWI, the United States was always among the top five Great Powers.
    After WW1 we were seventh for troop strength, which was a better measure of military strength then than it is today. After WW2, we were the most powerful country in the world militarily and economically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Zawisza View Post
    To back up your claims of FDR omnipotence (winning WWII, saving us from the Depression...), you'd have to establish causation, not just correlation. You really haven't done that.
    No, I am contesting JayDubya's ludicrous claim that FDR "ruined the country". His claim cannot possibly stand if the country in fact radically improved during that time period. Even if FDR had nothing to do with that improvement, JayDubya is still 100% wrong. And, of course, in reality, FDR played a massive role in that improvement. He instituted many massive efforts to make exactly those improvements which took place. He reshaped the country and the world. His presidency is generally considered the beginning of modernity itself. I get that that is a tough fact for libertarians to grapple with and that you guys want really badly to believe it wasn't so, but it happened.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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