View Poll Results: Who Was the Best US President?

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  • Abraham Lincoln

    15 14.15%
  • Franklin Roosevelt

    26 24.53%
  • George Washington

    10 9.43%
  • Thomas Jefferson

    9 8.49%
  • Theodore Roosevelt

    6 5.66%
  • Woodrow Wilson

    1 0.94%
  • Andrew Jackson

    2 1.89%
  • Harry Truman

    0 0%
  • Lyndon Johnson

    2 1.89%
  • Other (please list below)

    35 33.02%
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Thread: Best US President

  1. #271
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    Re: Best US President

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Well then take it up with them, not me or my taxes.
    It was your proposition.

  2. #272
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    Re: Best US President

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    It was your proposition.
    It's not our responsibility to make their life easier. They have other options - it takes a little work.
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've never denied my own hackish tendencies
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    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
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    Not all Nazis were bad people

  3. #273
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    Re: Best US President

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    It's not our responsibility to make their life easier. They have other options - it takes a little work.
    Opening channels to employment is making life easier?

  4. #274
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    Re: Best US President

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Opening channels to employment is making life easier?
    When they can do it themselves, yes. Coddling gets them nowhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've never denied my own hackish tendencies
    Quote Originally Posted by Pin dÁr View Post
    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by blaxshep View Post
    Not all Nazis were bad people

  5. #275
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    Re: Best US President

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    I don't? You're telling me what I do and don't understand? That's rich. (pun intended)
    Yeah, that you assumed somebody in that situation would have friends and neighbors who have computers is a strikingly obvious indication that you don't know what the life they lead is like at all. No clue. I used to run a program that worked with kids in abject poverty in DC. We did a goal setting activity once where we asked them to name somebody they knew that had a job that they would like to have one day. All of them- every single one- struggled to come up with an answer and when we pushed them, we only got one of four responses from each of them: teacher, police officer, probation officer or person that works for a program that works with kids in abject poverty in DC. Those were the only people they knew who had jobs. The cops, their probation officers, their teachers and us. That was it. None of their relatives had jobs, none of their neighbors had jobs, none of their friends' parents had jobs, there were no businesses in their neighborhoods except for the occasional store where their only interaction with the employee was through bulletproof glass. Somebody who is on welfare can't afford a computer and most the people in their community didn't qualify for welfare because they didn't have kids or because they had already exhausted their 5 years, so they were pretty much scrounging for food. That's the world these sorts of programs are designed to work in, not a world where people have neighbors with computers.

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    There are options, you have to look for them. It's not our responsibility to say "oh you are looking for a job but can't afford a cell phone? Here's one of the taxpayers dime!"
    That doesn't even mean anything. It's just an empty slogan. Responsibility does have anything to do with it. Our economic success as a country- all of ours- depends on getting as many people out of poverty as possible. The median American generates $3 million of GDP in their lifetime. If we can get a person out of poverty for anything less than $3 million, that's a net gain for the country. That means more employees, more customers, more inventions, more new companies being started... The US leaves huge amounts of money on the table for no reason by underfunding poverty amelioration. There are tons and tons of opportunities to increase our GDP by millions just by spending thousands and we don't take them because the slogans of the right prevent them from seeing it. If giving somebody a cell phone enables even 1 out of 1,000 of them to get a job each month, that is a HUGE, WINDFALL profit for the country. 1,000 months of the cheapest possible cell phone coverage costs maybe $30,000, so if that one person gets out, that's a net gain for the country of $2,970,000.
    Last edited by teamosil; 06-15-12 at 01:54 AM.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  6. #276
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    Re: Best US President

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    When they can do it themselves, yes. Coddling gets them nowhere.
    Coddling?

  7. #277
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    Re: Best US President

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Yeah, that you assumed somebody in that situation would have friends and neighbors who have computers is a strikingly obvious indication that you don't know what the life they lead is like at all. No clue. I used to run a program that worked with kids in abject poverty in DC. We did a goal setting activity once where we asked them to name somebody they knew that had a job that they would like to have one day. All of them- every single one- struggled to come up with an answer and when we pushed them, we only got one of four responses from each of them: teacher, police officer, probation officer or person that works for a program that works with kids in abject poverty in DC. Those were the only people they knew who had jobs. The cops, their probation officers, their teachers and us. That was it. None of their relatives had jobs, none of their neighbors had jobs. Somebody who is on welfare can't afford a computer and most the people in their community didn't qualify for welfare because they didn't have kids or because they had already exhausted their 5 years, so they were pretty much scrounging for food. That's the world these sorts of programs are designed to work in, not a world where people have neighbors with computers.



    That doesn't even mean anything. It's just an empty slogan. Responsibility does have anything to do with it. Our economic success as a country- all of ours- depends on getting as many people out of poverty as possible. The median American generates $3 million of GDP in their lifetime. If we can get a person out of poverty for anything less than $3 million, that's a net gain for the country. That means more employees, more customers, more inventions, more new companies being started... The US leaves huge amounts of money on the table for no reason by underfunding poverty amelioration. There are tons and tons of opportunities to increase our GDP by millions just by spending thousands and we don't take them because the slogans of the right prevent them from seeing it.
    After a fairly serious illness where we were talking about things like a left ventricular assist devices (basically a pump that takes over for your hearts left ventricle) and a heart transplant I have entered into a State sponsored program of vocational rehabilitation. Now amazingly for every dollar spent on this program over the long term the state reaps four dollars in additional tax revenue.

  8. #278
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    Re: Best US President

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Yeah, that you assumed somebody in that situation would have friends and neighbors who have computers is a strikingly obvious indication that you don't know what the life they lead is like at all. No clue. I used to run a program that worked with kids in abject poverty in DC. We did a goal setting activity once where we asked them to name somebody they knew that had a job that they would like to have one day. All of them- every single one- struggled to come up with an answer and when we pushed them, we only got one of four responses from each of them: teacher, police officer, probation officer or person that works for a program that works with kids in abject poverty in DC. Those were the only people they knew who had jobs. The cops, their probation officers, their teachers and us. That was it. None of their relatives had jobs, none of their neighbors had jobs. Somebody who is on welfare can't afford a computer and most the people in their community didn't qualify for welfare because they didn't have kids or because they had already exhausted their 5 years, so they were pretty much scrounging for food. That's the world these sorts of programs are designed to work in, not a world where people have neighbors with computers.
    They had 5 years. Like I told winston, there are other options. Look for them hard enough and you will find them.

    That doesn't even mean anything. It's just an empty slogan. Responsibility does have anything to do with it. Our economic success as a country- all of ours- depends on getting as many people out of poverty as possible. The median American generates $3 million of GDP in their lifetime. If we can get a person out of poverty for anything less than $3 million, that's a net gain for the country. That means more employees, more customers, more inventions, more new companies being started... The US leaves huge amounts of money on the table for no reason by underfunding poverty amelioration. There are tons and tons of opportunities to increase our GDP by millions just by spending thousands and we don't take them because the slogans of the right prevent them from seeing it.
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've never denied my own hackish tendencies
    Quote Originally Posted by Pin dÁr View Post
    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by blaxshep View Post
    Not all Nazis were bad people

  9. #279
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    Re: Best US President

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Coddling?
    Telling them "Yes - we will provide you with a cell phone" is coddling it.
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I've never denied my own hackish tendencies
    Quote Originally Posted by Pin dÁr View Post
    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
    Quote Originally Posted by blaxshep View Post
    Not all Nazis were bad people

  10. #280
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    Re: Best US President

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Telling them "Yes - we will provide you with a cell phone" is coddling it.
    Next thing ya know the big bad government might try getting electricity to people in Tennessee!

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