In terms of economic policy, is the United States moving left or right?

[Black_Zawisza]

Title says all.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Staying where its been for quite a while. Right wing.

 

[sangha]

Moving slowly to the left because, as the recent bailouts demonstrate, capitalism can't survive without socialism

 

[Canell]

Unfortunately, the US is moving fast toward socialism (big government). :damn

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Unfortunately, the US is moving fast toward socialism (big government). :damn

I wish.....

 

[Canell]

I wish.....

You wish what? Sorry, I don't understand. :shrug:

 

[TheDemSocialist]

You wish what? Sorry, I don't understand. :shrug:

Moving towards socialism.

 

[Canell]

Moving towards socialism.

But that's the wrong type of socialism that the US is moving towards! That's the soviet type of socialism-state capitalism-corporatism-olygarhy. That's sooo far from democratic socialism.

 

[Thrilla]

as I see it.. to the right would mean a freer economic environment.. to the left would be a more controlled and regulated environment

we sit firmly on the left now, and we are moving incrementally further to the far left.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

But that's the wrong type of socialism that the US is moving towards! That's the soviet type of socialism-state capitalism-corporatism-olygarhy. That's sooo far from democratic socialism.

Well yea need to define what kind of "socialism".
If its soviet style socialism then **** no.
If its democratic worker socialism then hell yes. (real socialism)

 

[Canell]

Well yea need to define what kind of "socialism".
If its soviet style socialism then **** no.
If its democratic worker socialism then hell yes. (real socialism)

Well, I thought it's obvious that it's the SS (soviet socialism). It would be great if you have some DS (democratic socialism) enterprises but I haven't heard of such yet.

 

[Thrilla]

Well, I thought it's obvious that it's the SS (soviet socialism). It would be great if you have some DS (democratic socialism) enterprises but I haven't heard of such yet.

Democratic socialism is not an end, it's a means.
the primary difference between soviet socialism and democratic socialism can be summed up in 3 words.... gradualism versus revolution.

we are still marching that way( towards socialism), but it doesn't look good .... while capitalism can certainly uphold socialism
for some time, there is a limit... there will be a point in time where we run out of other peoples money, as it were.
at that point, we will begin on the road back to the right... back towards capitalism.

 

[RDS]

Capitalism is dead but many diehard, hardcore people will worship capitalism as if it's their religion.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Democratic socialism is not an end, it's a means.
the primary difference between soviet socialism and democratic socialism can be summed up in 3 words.... gradualism versus revolution.

we are still marching that way( towards socialism), but it doesn't look good .... while capitalism can certainly uphold socialism
for some time, there is a limit... there will be a point in time where we run out of other peoples money, as it were.
at that point, we will begin on the road back to the right... back towards capitalism.

I think Chomsky describes it best

 

[Thrilla]

Capitalism is dead but many diehard, hardcore people will worship capitalism as if it's their religion.

Capitalism is far far from dead... in fact, our socialism relies entirely on capitalism for it's survival.

and yes, i'm a die hard Capitalist... I actually believe in property rights.

 

[Moot]

Capitalism is far far from dead... in fact, our socialism relies entirely on capitalism for it's survival.

and yes, i'm a die hard Capitalist... I actually believe in property rights.

So did the old time capitalist Southern plantation owners.

***

Owning one's own body is a property right, as is the labor one uses to create value....much to the chagrin of the corporate plutocracy. Which is why are they are spending billions to bust unions, abolish minimum wage and cheapen a person's worth in the labor market....especially women. They've deregulated the banks making us all vulnerable to "uncertainty" and personal economic disaster. They spew out their propganda and misinformation on every media outlet and use every mass propaganda technique imaginable. They're creating economic chaos, raping our resources, buying out our democracy, and taking over the government. If they can't outspend their critics, they'll mercilessly smear them all over their far right wing echo chamber. If thats capitalism then I'll take Chompsky's socialism anyday.


So guess what I voted for? lol

 

[MoSurveyor]

Well, I thought it's obvious that it's the SS (soviet socialism). It would be great if you have some DS (democratic socialism) enterprises but I haven't heard of such yet.

In cities they're called "Partnerships", in rural communities they're called "Cooperatives". Both have been working quite well in America for a very long time.


It's MegaCorp that keeps things mucked up.

 

[wolv67]

Moving slowly to the left because, as the recent bailouts demonstrate, capitalism can't survive without socialism

Yeah, yet so many cling to the fantasy that it's still a full-blown free market system, probably under the delusion that they'll personally strike it rich too one day.

 

[Objective Voice]

There's alot that goes into forming economic policy for a nation. Currently, our tax policies haven't changed since 1986 and any "changes" have come in the form of tax credits that relate to short-term fixes, i.e., tax credits and temporary extensions. Our economy is still based largely on financial services and is likely to remain that way for a very long time despite all the evidence that suggests we need to scale back our reliance on such and lean more on improving our manufacturing base. So, until Congress writes new tax policy (and hopefully that doesn't mean making the Bush tax cuts permanent because that would wreck our nation's economy even if the federal government began to cut spending by the trillions per year), we're stuck in the mud looking down a short road to ending up like Greece - a nation swamped with debt and no manufacturing base.

We need to change gears and fast! Unfortunately, too many people put too much faith in the prosperity of our nation on financial services and not enough in manufacturing. The reasons behind this are quite clear:

1. The need to make quite cash by the 10's of thousands; and,

2. A fear of a return of high production cost and overhead via unionization.

The irony on both counts is:

a) financial services when allowed to go uncheck wreck havoc on a nation's economy bringing about large booms and busts that require government intervention at the taxpayer's expense; and,

b) union membership both in labor and public services is so low right now and so many stats have stuck down collective bargaining rights and now have "right to work" laws and that it would take a total revolt by the people insisting on higher wages to meet cost of living demands before unionization returns anywhere near the levels this country once saw them in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

I'm not urging a people's revolt, but I am advocating that We, the People remain part of a "well informed electorate".

 

[LibertyBurns]

People talk about this "true socialism", what in the world are you talking about? How do the workers own a factory? Do they all come together and open it up? Whats stopping them? Or are they supposed to take a factory from an entrepreneur?