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Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?


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LOL. You didn't destroy me on anything. You showed he lied about releasing his notes and then made a huge jump in logic that it made federalist 41 and everything else Madison ever said a lie. Honesty isn't your strong suit, I see.

No I didn't kiddo. You need to read much, much, more carefully. In response to somebody posting Madison's notes about the convention, I said that the founders agreed not to release the notes, that he released his after everybody else died, and that they were his personal take on what happened at the convention, not like some kind of official record and that of course the founders on the other sides of various issues would have seen things differently.

To that you started screaming like a crazy person that I was calling Madison a liar and making up all that stuff. Remember? And then I gave you sources backing up everything I said exactly? Remember kiddo?
 
No I didn't kiddo. You need to read much, much, more carefully. In response to somebody posting Madison's notes about the convention, I said that the founders agreed not to release the notes, that he released his after everybody else died, and that they were his personal take on what happened at the convention, not like some kind of official record and that of course the founders on the other sides of various issues would have seen things differently.

To that you started screaming like a crazy person that I was calling Madison a liar and making up all that stuff. Remember? And then I gave you sources backing up everything I said exactly? Remember kiddo?

I remember it well thank you. You appear to have forgotten why you brought up the notes to begin with. Funny how you forgot we were talking about federalist 41 destroying your ass right before you brought it up.
 
I remember it well thank you. You appear to have forgotten why you brought up the notes to begin with. Funny how you forgot we were talking about federalist 41 destroying your ass right before you brought it up.

Henrin, you need to reel in your arrogance. You are making a fool of yourself. Here is the first post where I talked about the notes:

If you want to know what the founders were thinking, you should read Madison's notes on the Constitutional Convention.

Actually, a word of warning on that. You should read them, no doubt. BUT, be aware that all the founders agreed at one point not to release any notes or letters or documents explaining the constitution except what had already been released in the federalist papers. They didn't want to muddy the waters with a bunch of conflicting explanations any more than they had to. And, they were of the opinion that it is what the constitution says, not what they intended it to say, that matters. So, they destroyed all the official notes of the convention and made everybody promise not to release any of their own.

It's easy to think of the founders like they are one amorphous blob. The all looked and dressed the same and many of them sought to present a unified front. But they were actually far more divided than even politicians today. For example, some of them thought that there should be no executive branch at all. Others thought that we should have a king. The idea of having federal courts at all was controversial. Some of them wanted a government that was far more limited than even the government we had under the Articles of Confederation and some wanted a government far more powerful than what we do have.

Madison waited until all the other major players in the convention were dead, then released his notes. So, take it for what it is. It is not the equivalent of say the official record of floor speeches in Congress, it is more like reading Harry Reid or John Boehner's summary of what they want you to believe happened in Congress last year. Madison, and many others, consistently described the constitution more along the lines of what they wish it said than what actually was agreed on and put into the constitution. How much of that is willful manipulation and how much of it is just seeing the world through rose colored glasses nobody can say, but all the writings of the founders have that tendency and maybe Madison more than most.

But, all that said, do read them. Madison was brilliant and the founders' writings in general are surprisingly interesting. Madison's Federalist Papers 10 and 51 are also especially good reading. You really need to sit down and parse what he's saying line by line because it is densely packed with fascinating ideas. Just don't take any of it as authoritative by itself.

Here is your spastic reply to that post:

Lol. So he waited until everyone was dead to shove off his lies to the people! Haha, not only is that not accurate considering their release date but complete hackish bull**** with no proof to back it up. You are awesome.

Hahaha! You are picking out all of his works and calling them lies. It works against me! I must call it a lie! Proof? You? Nah..

Just go out and call the most brilliant man and father of the constitution a lie. It's so convincing. What is next is Mason is a lier too? What about Jefferson? I bet he is a lier. They all lie! Except here and here and here. Ignore that in order for those lines to not be lies I have to take them completely out of context. Hahaha

And here is me destroying your spastic post:

Well, give it another read I guess because, no, that isn't what I said.

No kiddo. I don't just make things up. His notes were not published until 1840. That is 36 years after his primary ideological rival Alexander Hamilton died. 16 years after Thomas Jefferson died. 11 years after John Jay died. Etc.

Here, read the introduction to his notes if you like:

Madison's Notes were not published until about 1840, perhaps to fulfill an early decision by the original convention forbidding disclosure of the proceedings, to which Madison may have felt himself bound while the other participants lived, and it was after all the rest of them had died that he did finally publish them.

http://www.nhccs.org/dfc-0002.txt

Maybe you shouldn't fly off the handle calling people liars until you've done a little digging eh?

Ok kiddo?
 
No one has given a good reason why they will not. Sooner or later republicans will run out of things to blame on them. God forbid, republicans might actually try to solve problems instead of blaming them on the other guy, but that is probably asking too much.

my 2 pennies... Unions won't bounce back because it is obvious that they are unnecessary.

the environment that allowed them to push the lower rungs into some level of prosperity is long gone.... if it ever returns, unions may be necessary once again.
unions are powerless to do anything about current problems, and they contribute to a fair share of our problems.

they won their victories long ago for the workers... and they've been living off those victories for decades upon decades.
when faced with the question of " what have you done for us lately" , the only answers they have is to share with us with those long past victories.

the American people understand this... they may accept that the freedom of association is important and should be trifled with, but they understand unions are living off of their legend and little more.

the argument that, in the absence of unions, workers would be relegated to a life of servitude, slavery, poverty and unsafe conditions does not resonate with folks... they see it as the balderdash it is.
 
Hmm, I don't recall seeing that in the Constitution.

it's covered under the 1st amendment..its the right of free association..it's a coupling of freedom of speech, assembly and, redress of grievances.

if you , for some odd reason, don't buy that... then it's covered by the 9th amendment.
 
Henrin, you need to reel in your arrogance. You are making a fool of yourself. Here is the first post where I talked about the notes:



Here is your spastic reply to that post:

Ignoring that last paragraph and the one right before it and what they mean to the rest I see. I'm a bit done here if you are going to prove my points. You don't really see how you just called him a lier, do you? Or maybe you do, but you are hoping its not apparent to everyone here?

And here is me destroying your spastic post:

Ok kiddo?

You destroyed me there? Lol
 
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Viciously attacking people because of their height now. I should say I am shocked. But I do not lie that well.

The marxist midget has a serious case of napoleonic complex
 
to quote alex trebek, jeopardy host "no, i'm sorry, that is incorrect"...

how moronic can a post get-I was advocating how the law should be. You obviously didn't even read what I wrote in your eagerness to whine at me. And yes it is my opinion that you have no right to work at my factory and If I want to fire your sorry ass for joining a union that should be my right. Don't like it-don't work there. But the government should have no right to support your silly union and nothing in the constitution properly gave the federal government that power
 
true, it's more about " they have it, I want it, so i'll take it"

the really amusing thing is watching those who lust for the wealth of others (or if they cannot have what I have, they want the government from preventing me from having it, which is why I call many of them economic vandals) spend so much time trying to pretend that their craven envy of others' success is based on a desire to actually help this country. ITs pathetic how they erect a facade of "patriotism" to hide their seething hatred of their own lack of success and the equally fervent hatred of the success of others.
 
That's the inherent contradiction in hard core Libertarianism. They don't want anarchy, but when you press on the specifics of an effective government, they don't want any of the things necessary to make the government effective.

sort of like the left-they claim they want more government and more taxation but they never can say when there is too much government or what tax rates are Too high on OTHER people. After all, if you buy into the nonsense that government can solve problems, more government can solve more problems etc

and if you buy into the nonsense that government can use MY money better than I can what is to stop you from advocating that government take ALL my money
 
the really amusing thing is watching those who lust for the wealth of others (or if they cannot have what I have, they want the government from preventing me from having it, which is why I call many of them economic vandals) spend so much time trying to pretend that their craven envy of others' success is based on a desire to actually help this country. ITs pathetic how they erect a facade of "patriotism" to hide their seething hatred of their own lack of success and the equally fervent hatred of the success of others.

Lol...know what man...your the biggest troll on this forum on this topic....if your serious, slashing your wrists would be a good option for you
 
Lol...know what man...your the biggest troll on this forum on this topic....if your serious, slashing your wrists would be a good option for you

that would be if you're serious


and I say what I believe is true-and yes I tire of the parasite mindset. I don't have any duty to continue to supply the pubic teat so the little public sector piggies can get fat and whine that we should feed them some more

remember the old saying

Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered

and the public sector unions are hogs
 
whoa....:shock:

People who are used to feeding at the public trough tend to get agitated when we suggest its time for them to find some food on their own
 
"When I first started teaching, I taught 38 children in my morning kindergarten and 39 in the afternoon class. At the time, this was a good assignment as many of my colleagues had 50 children in the morning and 50 children in the afternoon. Children were not provided with proper materials like textbooks, pencils, art supplies or access to music, art and gym teachers. Teachers routinely worked a second job to make ends meet.

It was collective bargaining that changed some of these conditions. I will not list reasons why teaching is still not an easy paycheck. I’ll let the fact that 50 percent who try teaching leave the profession in their first six years make the argument for me.

No doubt Mr. Feiwell also feels the grocery clerk, the auto assembly line worker, the actor, the writer, the baker, and on and on who do not do “hard labor” should not have unions either. The fact is, workers, no matter what their jobs, are subject to unjust working conditions and unfair compensation without the power that unions provide directly or indirectly.

American workers in general can expect a 40-hour work week, weekends, vacation time and laws against child labor all because of unions. Indeed, America was able to build a strong middle class only because of the work of the labor movement.

The current attack on public employee unions is an attack on the last stronghold of the labor movement. Only 11 percent of American workers are now unionized, many of these are public employees. The American electorate will have to decide if it is acceptable or not to undo the hard-won work of the Labor movement by voting for candidates who do or do not support the rights of the middle class.

What we take for granted can be gone in a flash. Anything is possible in a democracy. That’s why it takes constant vigilance."

Workers subject to unjust working conditions without unions: Sun News Letter to the Editor | cleveland.com
 
"When I first started teaching, I taught 38 children in my morning kindergarten and 39 in the afternoon class. At the time, this was a good assignment as many of my colleagues had 50 children in the morning and 50 children in the afternoon. Children were not provided with proper materials like textbooks, pencils, art supplies or access to music, art and gym teachers. Teachers routinely worked a second job to make ends meet.

It was collective bargaining that changed some of these conditions. I will not list reasons why teaching is still not an easy paycheck. I’ll let the fact that 50 percent who try teaching leave the profession in their first six years make the argument for me.

No doubt Mr. Feiwell also feels the grocery clerk, the auto assembly line worker, the actor, the writer, the baker, and on and on who do not do “hard labor” should not have unions either. The fact is, workers, no matter what their jobs, are subject to unjust working conditions and unfair compensation without the power that unions provide directly or indirectly.

American workers in general can expect a 40-hour work week, weekends, vacation time and laws against child labor all because of unions. Indeed, America was able to build a strong middle class only because of the work of the labor movement.

The current attack on public employee unions is an attack on the last stronghold of the labor movement. Only 11 percent of American workers are now unionized, many of these are public employees. The American electorate will have to decide if it is acceptable or not to undo the hard-won work of the Labor movement by voting for candidates who do or do not support the rights of the middle class.

What we take for granted can be gone in a flash. Anything is possible in a democracy. That’s why it takes constant vigilance."

Workers subject to unjust working conditions without unions: Sun News Letter to the Editor | cleveland.com

(the NEA is responsible for this advertisement)
 
Voting is a privilege. Owning a gun is a privilege. A right is something someone can not take away from you. People do not get to own guns. People do not get to vote. Thus, privileges.

All rights can be surpressed. But being supressed and being taken away are two totally different things.
 
that would be if you're serious


and I say what I believe is true-and yes I tire of the parasite mindset. I don't have any duty to continue to supply the pubic teat so the little public sector piggies can get fat and whine that we should feed them some more

remember the old saying

Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered

and the public sector unions are hogs

Without those "parasites" you wouldn't have a job.
 
Without those "parasites" you wouldn't have a job.

true, people suing others keep me employed

but I have a few jobs and that is just one
 
true, people suing others keep me employed

but I have a few jobs and that is just one

Doesn't matter what job you have. You can't have one without the other. Every single buisness is in some way shape or form tied to the people that you downgrade so much as "parasites".
 
Doesn't matter what job you have. You can't have one without the other. Every single buisness is in some way shape or form tied to the people that you downgrade so much as "parasites".

You need to read what I write a bit more carefully
 
You need to read what I write a bit more carefully

I did. I know that people suing others keeps your lawyering job busy. And that you said that you have a "few" jobs other than just that one. Your phrasing of that, to me, implied that you think those other jobs are not affected by the poor or as you like to call us..."parasites". Was I wrong in that? If so I will certainly apologize.
 
I did. I know that people suing others keeps your lawyering job busy. And that you said that you have a "few" jobs other than just that one. Your phrasing of that, to me, implied that you think those other jobs are not affected by the poor or as you like to call us..."parasites". Was I wrong in that? If so I will certainly apologize.

parasites come in all economic levels. and most working people aren't. its the people who try to gain power by pretending to care about the poor and use their plight as an argument for taking more money from others.

and yeah if you blame others for your lot in life and want others to pay your way that makes you a parasite
 
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