View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #941
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The market has been known to have crappy products, so what?
    It's important because that is what you are sure to get in the open market. Those most likley to suffer will be the most needy among us. This will widen the gap even more.



    You're pretending I'm hiding the fact that the market sells crap and its a bit pathetic. You're also pretending that the government doesn't sell crap. Tell me, which is better? The crap you can get away from or the crap you can't? You tell me. Competition DOES improve education and the existence of crap is exactly why. I have nothing to hide from or not admit, sorry.
    Actually, considering what they have to contend with in parents and conservative, they do a better job by far than the low end will get in the market. Competition will improve some areas, but too often the competition is for profit and not quality. This is important. Only those who can afford first class will see any improvement, though very little as most of them already have first class. The rest will get cheapened scaled down versious, and will be very hit and miss, largely miss.

    BTW, not sure where you got hiding. I merely figure you don't see the point.




    It doesn't show he has a mastery of his field. What kind of nonsense is that? Tell me the last time someone came out of college and had a mastery of their field? Oh right, it never happens. Regardless, you are still not answering the important question that is needed to be answered. How does have a degree in whatever field mean a certain wage is deserved and anything else is unacceptable?

    And you don't really want to go to doctors for being masters of their craft since many rely on the Internet these days.
    Sure it does. Have you seen what doctors go through?

    ANd it ahppens all the time in nearly all professions. Sure, some have to get some practical experience behind them, but take a nurse, a four year nurse 5 years down the road will be twice the nurse of the 2 year grade. the 2 year grade knows the practical, start the IV, whatever skill, the four year knows why and what to look for much better. Those years taught her things that gave her a better foundation.

    And I don't know a doctor who relys on the internet. And I know some doctors. Not sure where your getting some of this silliness.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #942
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #943
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    don't you people who are the reactionary far left get tired of the same silly comments over and over such as the stupid hammer crap and calling anyone who doesn't believe in hating the rich "far right"
    If it fits as perfectly as it does - it will be used whenever possible.
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  4. #944
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    What part of Our aims are not the same, is difficult for you to understand? Do you have some kind of mental problem I should know about? His aim is to check if RTW states are better. My aim is to check who earns more. They are not the same, hence I do not need to adjust for the same amount of factors.

    I do not know how many factors he adjusted for. If he actually adjusted for all of these factors, then how exactly do you adjust household income with the age of the state. To be honest I hardly think he adjust for any other factors than cost of living and demographics. If he really adjusted for age of the state and unemployment rate, then his study is just pure BS.

    I have also pointed out holes in his research, I have stated them 3 times now. You have pretended like I didn't write it 3 times. So you are pretty much trying to be an ass, because you are unable to argue for your points.
    His study clearly states that AFTER ADJUSTING FOR COST OF LIVING right to work states have workers earning $1,500.00 less and decreased benefits.

    You have said there are things wrong with his research. You have not shown what is wrong with his research other than rather general and vague pontifications. I will give this more time later today.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    from cp will - his convenient excuse to ignore honoring pensions that workers earned over thirty or forty years of service

    Contracts negotiated in bad faith by both actors should not be held as binding by current state and local governments when doing so would effectively destroy those governments' solvency.
    There was no such thing ever done. Those contracts were negotiated by the parties involved - both of whom were the legal representatives with full power to do so - in complete good faith.

    You are making a completely irresponsible and unsubstantiated charge that covers a half decade or more of multiple contracts, negotiated by multiple persons. Making such a serious charge demands the highest level of evidence possible.

    You have presented none.

    This can only be viewed as a right wing attempt to screw workers out of their rightful benefits that they earned over decades of work for the people.

    It is sad that you would take such a position in the face of the conservative claim of the value of contracts.

    This is blatant and utter hypocrisy of the worst sort.

    For you and the right to push this defines you as the enemy of the people. I view you no differently that someone who provides a map to my home and urges people to break in and loot it because I have something that they want. And I know how most would deal with that sort of theft.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #946
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What do you think happened when the philosophy of Marxism was proven a failure? I will give you hint, you believe in the latest version.
    Perhaps you can provide the details of that? When and where did this happen?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #947
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    from cpwill to me

    Given that when offered the option, it seems that half to a majority of public union members prefer to opt out, and given that the movement to limit Public Unions is coming from both parties, how do you justify your vote that Public Unions will end up stronger? What social, political, or economic force do you see driving that result?
    That is a serious question. I will give it proper time and consideration later in the day - got to run off to work now.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Yes, I know, you have been indoctrinated well. That doesn't change the facts.
    What facts are those? You continue to hint that the rich are able to exercise power over me, yet continue to provide any example of this. Your earlier claim that the wealthy have some sort of special power remains unproven.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The "ownership" (as you call it) of product depends on the laws of society. There is nothing innate or natural about property rights.
    I notice that you put the work ownership in quotes, and I wonder why.

    Under our legal system, the business is the exclusive owner of its inventory. Are you suggesting some change to this long-standing legal principle? If so, how would you like to see the ownership of the inventory divided up?

    Yes. Yes. All property in America is subject to law.
    Of course it is. If you're proposing a change in the law, then what is it?

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    His study clearly states that AFTER ADJUSTING FOR COST OF LIVING right to work states have workers earning $1,500.00 less and decreased benefits.

    You have said there are things wrong with his research. You have not shown what is wrong with his research other than rather general and vague pontifications. I will give this more time later today.
    You quoted him previously saying this
    Wages in right-to-work states are 3.2% lower than those in non-RTW states, after controlling for a full complement of individual demographic and socio-economic variables as well as state macroeconomic indicators. Using the average wage in non-RTW states as the base ($22.11), the average full-time, full-year worker in an RTW state makes about $1,500 less annually than a similar worker in a non-RTW state.
    You are just making a fool out of yourself.

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