View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #921
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Don't you guys on the far right ever get tired of having your knee hit with that little rubber hammer?
    don't you people who are the reactionary far left get tired of the same silly comments over and over such as the stupid hammer crap and calling anyone who doesn't believe in hating the rich "far right"

  2. #922
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So lets see now...

    Lafer includes forty different factors when he compares wages and you proudly state you fail to do that including only one. And then you criticize him for failing to include so many different factors while you yourself look at but one.

    Got it.
    What part of Our aims are not the same, is difficult for you to understand? Do you have some kind of mental problem I should know about? His aim is to check if RTW states are better. My aim is to check who earns more. They are not the same, hence I do not need to adjust for the same amount of factors.

    I do not know how many factors he adjusted for. If he actually adjusted for all of these factors, then how exactly do you adjust household income with the age of the state. To be honest I hardly think he adjust for any other factors than cost of living and demographics. If he really adjusted for age of the state and unemployment rate, then his study is just pure BS.

    I have also pointed out holes in his research, I have stated them 3 times now. You have pretended like I didn't write it 3 times. So you are pretty much trying to be an ass, because you are unable to argue for your points.

  3. #923
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I asked you earlier if this was about one tax paid to one level of government - the federal income tax. Your reply was NOPE.
    No, you asked if my point that the wealthy were not paying ridiculously lower taxes now than they had before was limited to the income tax. I replied that it was not, and sourced my refutation of the claim, for both nominal and effective rates. You were trying to derail off of an lpast rant, where reality is optional and anger is required, and I shut you down.

    You want to get back to talking about public employee unions and benefits? Fine. Here is a direct question for you:

    Do you or do you not favor government honoring its contractual commitments to those who fulfilled there contractual commitments to government during their period of employment?
    And I think I have provided the same answer to you several times now. Contracts negotiated in bad faith by both actors should not be held as binding by current state and local governments when doing so would effectively destroy those governments' solvency. Many of our counties and a couple of our states are staring at bankruptcy. California is a fiscal nightmare, and not a little of that is due to the fact that 80% of the money goes to the politically all-powerful public unions.

    As much as we can, I am in favor of altering conditions only for current and future workers, with reasonable grandfathering. When they looked at changing the military retirement package, for example, I was in favor of allowing the guys who hadn't finished their full careers receive pro-rated pensions (it would have been nice if we hadn't done that for guys on their last enlistment) and the TSP-match 401(k) style defined contribution benefit for the rest of their careers. In fact, long term, I think that is a better direction for the military to move in: that way guys don't get "trapped" at the 10-18 year marks by the need to "finish their time", but can leave with some benefit earlier. People don't work for the same organization for decades anymore like they used to, and a plan that acknowledges that will offer greater flexibility to the employer and the employed. Better for them, better for the military. But when you run into situations like the Democrat Mayor of San Jose did, where your options are to continue to pay outsized benefits packages or to provide needed public services, then fire stations take priority over guaranteed COLA increases.

    And now I will ask you a direct question:

    Given that when offered the option, it seems that half to a majority of public union members prefer to opt out, and given that the movement to limit Public Unions is coming from both parties, how do you justify your vote that Public Unions will end up stronger? What social, political, or economic force do you see driving that result?
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-12-12 at 11:53 PM.

  4. #924
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Don't you guys on the far right ever get tired of having your knee hit with that little rubber hammer?
    What do you think happened when the philosophy of Marxism was proven a failure? I will give you hint, you believe in the latest version.
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-12-12 at 11:53 PM.

  5. #925
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    What part of Our aims are not the same, is difficult for you to understand? Do you have some kind of mental problem I should know about? His aim is to check if RTW states are better. My aim is to check who earns more. They are not the same, hence I do not need to adjust for the same amount of factors.

    I do not know how many factors he adjusted for. If he actually adjusted for all of these factors, then how exactly do you adjust household income with the age of the state. To be honest I hardly think he adjust for any other factors than cost of living and demographics. If he really adjusted for age of the state and unemployment rate, then his study is just pure BS.

    I have also pointed out holes in his research, I have stated them 3 times now. You have pretended like I didn't write it 3 times. So you are pretty much trying to be an ass, because you are unable to argue for your points.
    Worth noting also is the selection bias. Since unions artificially increase the cost of labor, they depress demand - which is why workers have been leaving Union states for Right to Work states, in pursuit of jobs. So the jobs that are left having higher costs to the employer should rightfully be counted against the unemployment those higher costs have created.

  6. #926
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Property rights is crafted out of the natural order. Don't let that stop you though as it sure didn't stop marx from making an ass out of himself.
    That's horse crap! In the "natural order", that wild state we lived in for the past 200,000 years of our evolution, there was no "property" at all. People worked together as a tribe for the good of the tribe.

    Didn't Hitler also say that Aryan domination was the natural order? His use of the term was just as artificial as yours.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-13-12 at 01:51 AM.
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  7. #927
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I don't really care what the IRS thinks. It is their property and that is that.
    Let's see how much dust it "creates" with no one to operate it.


    In actuality it won't create dust, either, it will only accumulate dust. Much like many rich people accumulate wealth but seldom create it.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-13-12 at 01:52 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #928
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    That's horse crap! In the "natural order", that wild state we lived in for the past 200,000 years of our evolution, there was no "property" at all. People worked together as a tribe for the good of the tribe.

    Didn't Hitler also say that Aryan domination was the natural order? His use of the term was just as artificial as yours.
    Oh so we didn't take land from the Indians. I like how you use arguments when they work for you.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Let's see how much dust it "creates" with no one to operate it.
    And that means what to me exactly?

    In actuality it won't create dust, either, it will only accumulate dust. Much like many rich people accumulate wealth but seldom create it.
    And?? I'm assuming there will be ignorance that follows so please just get it over with.

  10. #930
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I don't want a flat tax.
    I misspoke, I should have said the conservatives should be all over it.


    I know, you want a government that works for nothing - or maybe a government run on voluntary contributions. In any event, good luck getting that to work in the modern world.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-13-12 at 01:56 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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