View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #81
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I doubt it's the end of public unions since the original problems they sought to address still exist. The treatment of unions as a scapegoat for economic problems, however, is likely temporary because our economy and citizens' opinion of the economy will eventually improve and a scapegoat will no longer be necessary.
    That is not the issue really. Are you asserting that public (gov't) employees have the right to demand all the salary and benefit increases that they want, limitted only by the gov't's abaility to extort it from the citizens? People have been shown, and will continue to be shown, that while they may have to work until age 65 to 69 to get SS/Medicare (taken by law from every one of their paychecks), that the gov'r workers may retire at age 50 (or younger) and be supported ONLY by taxation? Even the federal gov't (non-union) has abandoned that nonsense, yet many states, counties and cities persist in that "worker's" right that ONLY exists for gov't "workers". If retirement at age 50 is a "right" then why does IRS demand that John Q. Private may only draw from his own PRIVATE "tax defered" retirement funds after age 59 1/2 (or suffer a "penalty")? This news WILL get out, even if the MSM tries to pretend otherwise.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-08-12 at 11:14 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #82
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I think that's a ridiculous notion and a dangerous one for many workers and for the public. If you tell public sector employees to not unionize and in turn, take whatever their employer gives them, you're setting many of them up for being treated unfairly and you're setting the public up for attracting lower quality workers and enabling the government to provide lower quality services.
    the employer are the people of the united states. Unions don't bargain with us though-they bargain with people they often are responsible for electing. Are you saying our elected representatives would treat public employees unfairly?

    public sector unions were created to funnel money to democrat politicians

  3. #83
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    AGAIN....if your shop is a union shop, you have 90 days to make a decision to keep me or not....and are you claiming that these unions don't have to negotiate with officials whom you helped to elect? that they dont have to negotiate with elected officials who are hostile to them? really?
    You are trying a strawman. We aren't arguing over the Right to Work (though I would support it) in the private sector. We are talking about Public Sector Unions. In the Private Sector, we have stated several times here that we are fine with closed shops so long as you also allow non-union shops. If you aren't going to allow non-union shops, then you should allow the Right to Work. Government simply shouldn't tilt the balance of power in favor of either actor.

  4. #84
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I think that's a ridiculous notion and a dangerous one for many workers and for the publc.
    What an interesting notion. As a member of the military, I rather suspect that the public is in less danger due to the fact that me and my co-workers do not organize to push our budgetary preferences on them. Though parking a few tanks outside of the Capital building and assigning a couple of Battalions of Infantry to guard the exits might indeed focus Congresscritters minds wonderfully on how much we would like for Sequestration DOD cuts to go away . If Public Sector Unions want to talk about "having an army" and "fighting a battle"... okay . Let's have a fight - SEIU v the US Marine Corps on whether or not we cut services or defense .

    If you tell public sector employees to not unionize and in turn, take whatever their employer gives them, you're setting many of them up for being treated unfairly and you're setting the public up for attracting lower quality workers and enabling the government to provide lower quality services.
    In which case the people can hold government officials accountable for the horrible services they have provided. Except that politicians will now be accountable to the public, whereas currently they are protected from backlash over the horrible services being provided due to the existence and power of Public Unions.

    I would rather suspect that public employees provide worse services when they know that they will face no negative consequences for failing to do so.
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-08-12 at 11:21 PM.

  5. #85
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the employer are the people of the united states. Unions don't bargain with us though-they bargain with people they often are responsible for electing. Are you saying our elected representatives would treat public employees unfairly?

    public sector unions were created to funnel money to democrat politicians
    Actually, the employer is the government.

  6. #86
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Actually, the employer is the government.
    so again why would public sector employees need a union?

  7. #87
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I think that's a ridiculous notion and a dangerous one for many workers and for the public. If you tell public sector employees to not unionize and in turn, take whatever their employer gives them, you're setting many of them up for being treated unfairly and you're setting the public up for attracting lower quality workers and enabling the government to provide lower quality services.
    Nonsense. I, and many other taxpayers, see the "quality" of gov't (I see you like the nice term "public sector") employees (and even a few gov't workers too). Many meet these fine folks in the unemployment office, like our "Texas workforce commission", or the department of motor vehicles (part of DPS in Texas) and see no "exceptional" qualities on display. The vast majority of gov't employees are file clerks, drivers, maintance workers and etc. with a VERY generous number of "managers". I know I left out police and firefighters, but they are the more visible gov't workers, and a very small minority of gov't employees. Look at the pay and benefit difference for gov't vs. private drivers, teachers and nurses, if you assert that private is "better" without a union to "protect" the gov't employee. Unlike the private sector, 80% or better of gov't "management" is also under the union defined and controlled pension systems (they are workers, that are simply labeled as management). The joke about road crews is sadly true; if you see one worker busy with a shovel surrounded by 4 or five others, just standing around, watching him, that is a gov't "work" detail.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-08-12 at 11:40 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #88
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    What an interesting notion. As a member of the military, I rather suspect that the public is in less danger due to the fact that me and my co-workers do not organize to push our budgetary preferences on them.
    I have no problem with you having that opinion which is why I said "many workers" and not "all." It depends on the profession and for teachers, firefighters and police officers, I think unions are necessary. When you allow a School Board to fire teachers based on their students' scores when such scores are impacted by many things outside the teacher's control, not only do you allow unfair firings, you enable the quality of your district to decrease.

    Though parking a few tanks outside of the Capital building and assigning a couple of Battalions of Infantry to guard the exits might indeed focus Congresscritters minds wonderfully on how much we would like for Sequestration DOD cuts to go away . If Public Sector Unions want to talk about "having an army" and "fighting a battle"... okay . Let's have a fight - the AARP v the US Marine Corps on whether or not we cut entitlements or defense .
    Both.

    In which case the people can hold government officials accountable for the horrible services they have provided.
    Just as public sector unions can hold government officials accountable for any poor treatment of public employees that occurs.

  9. #89
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so again why would public sector employees need a union?
    Same reason anyone else does, to have colelctive power to negotiate. This is not complicated.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #90
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Nonsense. I and many other taxpayers see the "quality" of gov't (I see you like the nice term "public sector") employees. Many meet these fine folks in the unemployment office, like our "Texas workforce commission", and see no "exceptional" qualites on display. The vast majority of gov't employees are file clerks, drivers, maintance workers and etc. with a VERY generous number of "managers". Unlike the private sector, 80% or better of gov't "management" is also under the union defined and controlled pension system (they are workers, that are simply labeled as management). The joke about road crews is sadly true; if you see one worker busy with a shovel surrounded by 4 or five others, standing around, watching him, that is a gov't "work" detail.
    I don't have any feelings about the term "public sector." It was used in the OP and so I continued using it.

    In any case, I don't see how anything you said is relevant to what I said. You saw a bunch of people you think are bums. Cool. I'm happy for you.

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