View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #881
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Er what? Marxism? Failing to protect property rights? Where did you get that stuff from lol?
    So you are ignorant of Marx? His argument was basically private property is a man made creation and all that is real is possession. That capitalist property is nothing but theft from the masses.

    You wish to destroy private property and you are treating it like theft which just so happens to be using the exact same argument as he did.
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-12-12 at 09:08 PM.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Property rights is crafted out of the natural order.
    So you're telling me that, say for example, the rules that say that corporate boards need to have an audit committee and that that committee be made up of "outside" directors only, the rules about how those members get selected, what responsibilities and powers that committee has, and what qualifications they need to have, are somehow naturally occurring rules that existed somewhere on a stone tablet somewhere before society wrote them down? Um... That's crazy talk.

    In reality there are thousands of intricate rules that determine how power over different areas of the corporate world are distributed. The CEO (employee) gets certain powers by law, others from the corporate charter. Employees in general have some powers by law and some from corporate charters. Board members and investors are granted various powers by laws. Etc. Those are all rules humans came up with, not God or something.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  3. #883
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    So you're telling me that, say for example, the rules that say that corporate boards need to have an audit committee and that that committee be made up of "outside" directors only, the rules about how those members get selected, what responsibilities and powers that committee has, and what qualifications they need to have, are somehow naturally occurring rules that existed somewhere on a stone tablet somewhere before society wrote them down? Um... That's crazy talk.
    Did I mention that rule? Nope.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    No, I think upper class Americans like you have no contact with the real America. The average American family have an income of 45K USD. If they got 100K USD in household income, they wouldn't know what to spend it on. I live on 10K, and I live better than many others down here. Costs here in Auckland are approximately the same as America, but wages are lower.

    And right now I am talking about household income. Median personal income is 26K. But somehow, earning 90K, and 120K with compensation is not rich? Please get in touch with real America.
    Populist conservatism is just ridiculous. Get a clue. You're backing the party that is fighting tooth and nail to squeeze working class people for every penny, you're fighting against the right of working class people to negotiate more effectively for a better slice of the pie, you're complaining about teachers getting paid too much of all things... All so we can further enrich the super rich. And yet you have the audacity to come in here pretending to be a populist looking out for the little guy? Sorry, but it just doesn't pass the laugh test.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Did I mention that rule? Nope.
    Well that rule, and thousands of others like it, are a huge part of what determines how much of the profits of corporations go to owners vs. workers.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Sorry but I disagree with this. There are plenty of home schooled children that do just as well, if not better than public school children scholastically speaking. And those parents don't have a teaching degree. Hell, I'm a better teacher than my sons first grade teacher. She just tried to get him to learn reading by rote instead of actually figuring out how to sound out the words. I know this because I spent a day with him in his class watching how he was doing and how the teacher was teaching.
    When the student/teacher ratios get toward 1:1 - hell, even a large family at 5:1 - then you let me know and we'll have something to talk about.
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Populist conservatism is just ridiculous. Get a clue. You're backing the party that is fighting tooth and nail to squeeze working class people for every penny, you're fighting against the right of working class people to negotiate more effectively for a better slice of the pie, you're complaining about teachers getting paid too much of all things... All so we can further enrich the super rich. And yet you have the audacity to come in here pretending to be a populist looking out for the little guy? Sorry, but it just doesn't pass the laugh test.
    Am I backing the Republican Party? No, I am not.

    However, I do not like public unions much. Why? Because public union workers earn substantially more than non-union workers, and demanding more. Working class Americans will end up paying, because taxing rich Americans won't bring in much revenue.

    I have said it before. Republicans support rich conservatives. Democrats support rich liberals. No one is looking for the little guy, and certainly not you. Look at how Democrats have impoverished people in cities like Detroit, or states like California. Why do you think so many poor whites are voting Republican? Are they all racist? Don't you think they would have voted Democrat if they really believed Democrats care about them. Instead liberals call poor whites, white trash. That is how much rich liberals care about the poor.

    If you want to help poor people with unions, then drop public sector unions for all groups earning more than US average, and work for higher unionisation rate among the working poor. Now, unions are just making themselves richer at the expense of everyone else.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    If you want to start with the ones influencing the government that's fine with me. That's not all of them by a long shot but at least it's a beginning!
    People influencing the government have no power over me. The government has power over me, which is why they are trying to influence the government.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Populist conservatism is just ridiculous. Get a clue. You're backing the party that is fighting tooth and nail to squeeze working class people for every penny, you're fighting against the right of working class people to negotiate more effectively for a better slice of the pie, you're complaining about teachers getting paid too much of all things... All so we can further enrich the super rich. And yet you have the audacity to come in here pretending to be a populist looking out for the little guy? Sorry, but it just doesn't pass the laugh test.
    Talking about nonsense. Did you get all of that on MSNBC and Ed Schultz?

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You aren't really responding to my position. Whose proceeds they are is a decision we make as a society.
    When a person sells something, the proceeds are his. He owned the item, and when he sells it he then owns the proceeds. That's how our legal system works.

    So when a businessman sells the inventory that he owns, why would anyone but him be entitled to the proceeds?

    Are you suggesting a change to the legal system in which one does not own the proceeds from items he sells?

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