View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #871
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You aren't really responding to my position. Whose proceeds they are is a decision we make as a society.
    Marxist? Awesome. From each to each?
    Failing to protect property rights is unjust. Without justice there can be no civil society. Why bother funding such a government?

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You aren't really responding to my position. Whose proceeds they are is a decision we make as a society.
    No we don't. Its a fact of the matter who owns what.

    You haven't been able to defeat this either other than calling it out as a slogan either.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Marxist? Awesome. From each to each?
    Failing to protect property rights is unjust. Without justice there can be no civil society. Why bother funding such a government?
    You wouldn't have a choice other than to fight them in arms. He is using the Marxist language though by saying society decides property. It was pure gibberish when he said it and still pure gibberish.

  4. #874
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No we don't. Its a fact of the matter who owns what.
    Its a fact? What do you mean? It's a fact that you stop at a red light and go at a green light too. That doesn't mean society didn't decide that was how we would do things.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    First, my hat is off to you for actually trying to back up your claim with research. We rarely see that here and you are to be congratulated for it.

    However, I think your data is far from complete and thus your conclusion is not accurate nor factual.
    First, off. The aims of the research, and my aim wasn't the same. I was just interested in one thing. Who is richer? Right to work, or states who are not right to work. For doing that, my data is complete. RTW states are richer.

    His research has the aim, does right to work benefit a state. I looked through his research, but his findings do not support his conclusion. He show growth rates, and state there is no correlation. However, there certainly is. Of the 20 states with lowest growth, only 5 are right to work. Among the top 10, 5 are right to work. If he actually computed the data and adjusted for population, he would find a correlation. But he never did.

    Then he starts talking about Oklahoma, but that is only one state. I skipped that part.

    Then he starts talking about manufacturing losses, but doesn't include all states in America. If he did, he would have seen this. If you know which states are right to work, then you can see how bad it would look if he included all states.


    Dr. Gordon Lafer has made an extensive study of right to work. He is one of the national experts on the subject. Last year I was fortunate enough to be in the audience in a special in service he gave for members and staff of the Michigan legislature. Here is his report.
    He is like many famous "experts", both on the left and the right, a fraud. That is how you become famous as a scientist in America.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Its a fact? What do you mean? It's a fact that you stop at a red light and go at a green light too. That doesn't mean society didn't decide that was how we would do things.
    I already explained myself. If you remember you called it a slogan. I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how its not the order of things rationally, naturally, and justly. You have done none of them.

    A street light is a rule crafted out of safety. Property rights is crafted out of the natural order. Don't let that stop you though as it sure didn't stop marx from making an ass out of himself.
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-12-12 at 08:58 PM.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Marxist? Awesome. From each to each?
    Failing to protect property rights is unjust. Without justice there can be no civil society. Why bother funding such a government?
    Er what? Marxism? Failing to protect property rights? Where did you get that stuff from lol?

    In a capitalist society, or a society operating under any other economic scheme, we decide what rules to operate under. You can have property rights and capitalism just the same whether you have companies run by boards of directors that are exclusively elected by investors or that are exclusively elected by employees or a mix of the two. You can have property rights and capitalism just the same whether you tax investors at the same rates, lower rates, or higher rates than you tax workers. Etc. Of course society decides how to set those things. Who else would?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Really, no idea what I'm talking about? I can't believe that. You know perfectly fine that if people that are right below him get taxed along with him it will hurt them more than it hurts him and thus it works to his advantage. Maybe if you thought about the argument put out by liberals on the flat tax it would of been obvious?
    So Buffet wants the Buffet Rule for the same reason conservatives want a flat tax? Then you guys should be jumping all over it!
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    So Buffet wants the Buffet Rule for the same reason conservatives want a flat tax? Then you guys should be jumping all over it!
    I don't want a flat tax.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    That is just absurd. You're being ridiculous. Teachers range between lower middle class and middle class. It's like you live on a different planet than I do... Do you not know any teachers or something?
    No, I think upper class Americans like you have no contact with the real America. The average American family have an income of 45K USD. If they got 100K USD in household income, they wouldn't know what to spend it on. I live on 10K, and I live better than many others down here. Costs here in Auckland are approximately the same as America, but wages are lower.

    And right now I am talking about household income. Median personal income is 26K. But somehow, earning 90K, and 120K with compensation is not rich? Please get in touch with real America.

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