View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #841
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    Boo Radley's Avatar
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Market magic dictates that compensation is tied to production. The violation of that dictate leaves market forces meaningless. This is obviously the case in ill-managed businesses, especially those infected with management incompetence, cronyism and nepotism. This is also the case of for government management, except that the causes are collectively called partisan politics.
    NO, not really. At least not as mean it. I could do 40-50 students in a writing class. Production. But quality would suffer. Hence, production would result in lack of quality. And no, government has very little contact with those who work at schools. Schools present lobbyists just as employers do. You overstate as many on your side does.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #842
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Makes no difference. Market is magic. In fact, the market also produces inferior products sold cheap.
    What in the **** does that have to do with my point? The market drives the wages in private school while the government is not governed by it.

    And like I said, next time you car breask down, or you're ill with something serious, go to your hairdresser. And don't tell me being educated is an excuse. Just let her or him fix your car and treat your illness. It will likely be cheaper.
    Educational level is an excuse for wages by public teachers. It's that simple. There is no reason to suspect that if you have so and so degree you should expect such and such wage.
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-12-12 at 03:08 PM.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    NO, not really. At least not as mean it. I could do 40-50 students in a writing class. Production. But quality would suffer. Hence, production would result in lack of quality. And no, government has very little contact with those who work at schools. Schools present lobbyists just as employers do. You overstate as many on your side does.
    Let me try to make this clear. If there were others, and I'm not saying there are, who could teach the same amount of students without sacrifice to quality, is there any reason on earth why they should not be given your position?

  4. #844
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Let me try to make this clear. If there were others, and I'm not saying there are, who could teach the same amount of students without sacrifice to quality, is there any reason on earth why they should not be given your position?
    There are not. To even suggest it shows a lack of understanding of the job and subject matter. But it is an issue constantly on the forefront. Adminstrators want to put more studnets in the classroom and lower wages. The market suggests such thinking, and it does, make no mistake about it, hurt quality.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #845
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What in the **** does that have to do with my point? The market drives the wages in private school while the government is not governed by it.
    No, it really doesn't. Job availaiblity and easier students bring people to private schools. Not the market.


    Educational level is an excuse for wages by public teachers. It's that simple. There is no reason to suspect that if you have so and so degree you should expect such and such wage.
    I know. Knowing how to fix cares and treat illness is an excuse for mechanics and doctors. I understand, which is why you'd willingly use your hairdresser instead.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #846
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    There are not. To even suggest it shows a lack of understanding of the job and subject matter. But it is an issue constantly on the forefront. Adminstrators want to put more studnets in the classroom and lower wages. The market suggests such thinking, and it does, make no mistake about it, hurt quality.
    This is where you wander far, far away from reality. You have been told, and will readily accept, AND CONSTANTLY REPEAT, that ONLY people holding a certain degree or certificate, defined as needed ONLY by those currently holding such degrees and certification, CAN effectively teach children in PUBLIC schools. Yet, with our own eyes, we SEE private schools using "less qualified" and lower paid PROFESSIONAL TEACHERS to attain BETTER (not just as good as) student performance on STANDARDIZED tests than those PUBLIC SCHOOLS using your "very qualified", certificate bearing, higher paid public teaching staff.

    Only a moron would believe that ONLY a master mechanic can the change oil, fix a flat tire or perform a tune-up on your car, yet YOU constantly assert that nothing short of a masters degree permits ANYONE from teaching a 3rd grader basic math skills. This is EXACTLY why we can not allow teachers unions to set the rules, and then "negotiate" how much to pay those that "meet the qualifications" that they defined as necessary using NO BASIS other than their own say so.

    The argument ALWAYS used is that the public school teachers are BETTER because they hold fancy, higher level, paper credentials that deserve "reverence" and thus command "higher pay". Yet, the professional teachers (but not as "well educated"), used in private schools, SOMEHOW manage to constantly (consistantly?) produce better educated STUDENTS while spending less money, per pupil, to do that job; IMHO that proves that private teachers, although BOTH less "educated" and lower paid are, in fact, BETTER.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-12-12 at 04:15 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, it really doesn't. Job availaiblity and easier students bring people to private schools. Not the market.
    *Rubs eyes in disappointment*

    Are public schools governed by supply and demand? yes or no.

    Are private schools governed by supply and demand? yes or no.

    Why people decide on the job has nothing to do with my point. If I was talking about teachers and why they decided on private schools your point would be valid, but I didn't do such a thing.
    I know. Knowing how to fix cares and treat illness is an excuse for mechanics and doctors. I understand, which is why you'd willingly use your hairdresser instead.
    *Facedesk* What drives payment? If it was degrees than every last field that needed a BA or MA would pay you extremely well. Again, its wonderful you found some talking point, but it has nothing to do with anything.

    And many people DO know how to teach that are not teachers. Did you forget the success of homeschooling?
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-12-12 at 04:19 PM.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    There are not. To even suggest it shows a lack of understanding of the job and subject matter. But it is an issue constantly on the forefront. Adminstrators want to put more studnets in the classroom and lower wages. The market suggests such thinking, and it does, make no mistake about it, hurt quality.
    The question was conditional and your reaction was as impotent as it could possibly be. The problem with the internet is that you usually have no idea of who or what you're dealing with.

    The problem with teaching is perhaps that often stupidity begets stupidity and dogma begets dogma. This is probably where all these politically-correct a-holes that I deal with find their inspiration.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    The right to work for less. In right to work states average pay is lower.
    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    I would like to see a national right to work law past.
    Last edited by jpevans; 06-12-12 at 06:11 PM.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpevans View Post
    The right to work for less. In right to work states average pay is lower.
    Not if you adjust for cost of living.
    Richest and Poorest States in the United States - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

    Among the 10 states on the bottom, only 3 are right to work. Namly Louisiana, Mississippi, and Arkansas.

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