View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #811
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Correct. And please note, the owner is paying the workers for the workers' product, namely labor. The owner then uses this product along with other factors of production to produce a product of his own, which he hopes to sell.

    It is very important to note that by the time the owner's product is ready for sale, the worker has already been paid for his labor, as have all the other factor providers. Whether the owner makes a profit or a loss doesn't matter. The worker's sale of labor to the owner is an independent transaction that is completed prior to the owner's attempt to sell anything.
    All true, but if a company succeeds due to the actions of labor, is it wrong for labor to ask to share in the fruits of their labor? Many start-up company employees give up a lot in the beginning in hopes of reaping more in the future. In bankruptcy or tough times, labor is often asked to give up pay and benefits. Once those times pass, shouldn't they expect their pay and benefits be returned to previous or near-previous levels?

    It used to be the CEO of a company made 40 times the lowest paid worker. Now it is several hundred times that:
    The average compensation of a CEO in 1980 was about 40 times that of the average worker in his company. Today it is more than 500 times!
    Wages in America: The Rich Get Richer

    Good for the CEO, but why are employees being shafted? Management and Labor are symbiotic. They need each other and there should be a balance in their relationship. If management abuses labor too much or labor abuses management too much, then there are sure to be problems. I support unionism, but, like a management structure which is too dominant over its labor force, a union which is too strong and demands too much will harm the company. There needs to be a balance of powers between labor and management.

    Beginning of the End for Public Unions?-yinyanglabormanagement-png

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun View Post
    All true, but if a company succeeds due to the actions of labor, is it wrong for labor to ask to share in the fruits of their labor?
    No, I would not agree that it is not wrong for them to ask. They may ask whatever they wish.

  3. #813
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Over the top extremist hyperbole.

    Libertarians and right wingers are showing their true colors and just how much respect they have for contracts. And then they wonder why they cannot get even 1% of the vote for president? Amazing.
    1% huh? Hey, didn't they have an election in Wisconsin over this sort of thing? How'd that go, anywho?

  4. #814
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1% huh? Hey, didn't they have an election in Wisconsin over this sort of thing? How'd that go, anywho?
    CP cmon buddy you keep harping on Wisc, your ignoring the poll that I posted that was done by Rasmussen a right leaning pollster that more people favor public unions in wisc and the country than do not.
    I hate to be the one that tells you this....but wisc is a reflection of the 10s of millions being spent that have been spent by the likes of the koch brothers to create CLASS WARFARE and jealousy between the private sector and the public sector working class....Its NOT going to last CP
    It just came out yesterday that the middle class has lost a huge amount of family wealth in the last 20 yrs and top 1% gained...all the evidence is there but you are so blindly partisan you wont acknowledge it.

  5. #815
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Now you don't want to adjust for socio-economic conditions. Also, charter schools are not the same as private schools, and I am a little bit skeptical of the test. However, I am not planning to make this a debate about charter schools.

    Adjusting for social economic conditions is often BS. It does say that public schools in a rich area perform equally well to a rich private schools. However, it does not say that private schools are not better than public schools. Which they are, or else parents would just send their kids to a public school. No need to pay a lot of money for an inferior or equal education.

    The point that I have been making has not been a political point like the one you are trying to make. I am just stating a fact, that private schools teachers tend to be better than public schools teachers. While you stated it was the other way around, which is an incorrect statement based on your faulty thinking that a degree or a certificate make a teacher good.


    So, 4.5% would be ideal. But seeing teacher compensation for some teachers increase from 120K to 150K in five years is wild imagination. I have feeling you may struggle a little with maths, and memory.


    No, you didn't. You said all teachers who have a degree are good teachers. And please don't ask me to show you where you said it again. One time is enough.

    Also, your change didn't make it correct. No, not all teachers with a degree and certifications are better than those without. Teaching is a skill.

    Camlon, you make some good points...but I have to ask you...WHAT teacher in the classrooms pay went from 120k to 150k....my daughter is an educator and a supervisor in a state that has some of the highest paid teachers in the country and she is in a district in that state that is one of the highest paid in that state and she does NOT make 85,000 a year....are you talking Principles and Superintendents maybe ? a superintendent is NOT a school teacher.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Camlon, you make some good points...but I have to ask you...WHAT teacher in the classrooms pay went from 120k to 150k....my daughter is an educator and a supervisor in a state that has some of the highest paid teachers in the country and she is in a district in that state that is one of the highest paid in that state and she does NOT make 85,000 a year....are you talking Principles and Superintendents maybe ? a superintendent is NOT a school teacher.
    No, teacher has gone from 120K to 150K. That was more what could happen in the future if teacher unions get what they want.

    Also, I am not really talking about salaries, but compensation. That is salaries plus benefits. The highest paid teachers earn about 120K in compensation. If their salaries keep increasing by 4.5% like they want, then in 5 years their wage with compensation will be 150K. That is going to hurt the poor, because public budgets have to be cut, or taxes have to be increased.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    99% vs 1%, right. Let's see, 53% taxpayers vs 47% who pay no taxes + union households. Wisconsin would have squared pretty nicely if it weren't for the union households bit. I guess that's why the Koch bros and money have to come into play for labor and the left to have an excuse. The problem with that of course is that grassroots' and labor unions' unpaid contributions are not factored into the equation. Go figure.

  8. #818
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Why do the rich deserve to keep more of their money than the working class?
    another one of the idiotic loaded questions. This is as silly a petulant rant I have ever seen

  9. #819
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    How do trade unions guarantee quality
    1) trade unions generally train their workers. Apprenticeships? You may have heard of them

    2) generally good trade unions know what is needed for a job and supplies those able to do it

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'm interested to know why you think education level = a certain acceptable wage and when it doesn't there is some reason to be outraged.

    Any answers?
    its a sense of entitlement the wannabes have. I suggested that the left could be broken down into several groups-the elite machiavellians, the dependent pawns, the ivory tower pillowheads (and common to this board) the somewhat educated cubicle bunnies who have degrees and complain that the market has not given them all the wealth they believe that they deserve so they want the government to punish those who have the riches the ECB's think they deserve

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