View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #801
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    No it doesn't. Here it is obvious you do not understand my point. You first agree with my point that schools in rich areas are better than schools in poor areas.
    Yes, that is a result of socio-economic conditions.


    And you have agreed with me that most private schools are in good areas.
    Yes, again because of the socio-economic conditions. You are getting it!


    Hence, you are have proven yourself wrong. Private schools are better than public schools.
    That's where your logic train jumps right off the rails. Man that's some seriously twisted reasoning right there.

    I'll just leave it for others to decide if that makes any sense whatsoever.

    Good day!
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Why do the rich deserve to keep more of their money than the working class?
    Why do you want to make the rich public union workers richer, at the expense of the working class?

  3. #803
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    It is a general statement, not an absolute statement. So
    1. No
    2. No
    3. No
    4. No
    5. Depends on how you define it
    Thank you.

    So your statement: Private schools are better than public schools. Is clearly not a factual one and is wrong by your own admission.
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, that is a result of socio-economic conditions.

    Yes, again because of the socio-economic conditions. You are getting it!

    That's where your logic train jumps right off the rails. Man that's some seriously twisted reasoning right there.

    I'll just leave it for others to decide if that makes any sense whatsoever.

    Good day!
    No, I stated schools in good areas are better than schools in bad areas, and you did agree with that statement. That means if a poor student go to one of the schools in a rich area he will get a better education. That means the teachers in rich areas are better than the teachers in poor areas.

    Now, most public schools are in bad or middle class areas. Most private schools are in rich areas. That means private schools have on average a better quality of teaching. That means an average private school teacher is better than an average public school teacher. You proved yourself wrong.

    I am sorry this logic is too complicated for you, but I didn't really have high expectations for you.
    Last edited by Camlon; 06-12-12 at 07:28 AM.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thank you.

    So your statement: Private schools are better than public schools. Is clearly not a factual one and is wrong by your own admission.
    It is a general statement, not an absolute statement. The absolute statement is incorrect. The general statement is correct.

  6. #806
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Why do you want to make the rich public union workers richer, at the expense of the working class?
    False premise.

    First of all, public sector union workers are indeed members of the working class.

    Second, the expense of public workers is carried by ALL in society served by those workers.

    Third, your use of the word RICHER unfairly and inaccurately conjures up the idea that these workers are already RICH and only want to become RICHER.
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    It is a general statement, not an absolute statement. The absolute statement is incorrect. The general statement is correct.
    So show us where this "general statement" is true. Perhaps you can use data to show us this?

    It seems to me that this "general statement" is fairly worthless.
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You're just stating the current rule- the profits go to the owner rather than the workers. That doesn't advance your position.
    Yes, that's how our legal system works. When a person buys something, they become the owner. Are you proposing a change to this?

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So show us where this "general statement" is true. Perhaps you can use data to show us this?

    It seems to me that this "general statement" is fairly worthless.
    Are you stating that schools in rich areas are not better than schools in poor areas?

    If you don't disagree with that, and agree that most private schools are in rich areas. Then you agree with me that private schools are on average better than public schools.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    False premise.

    First of all, public sector union workers are indeed members of the working class.

    Second, the expense of public workers is carried by ALL in society served by those workers.

    Third, your use of the word RICHER unfairly and inaccurately conjures up the idea that these workers are already RICH and only want to become RICHER.
    1. No, if you are above the threshold of 70K in income with compensation, then you are above the working class. The upper middle class is not the working class.

    2. That just makes it worse. Imagine if we paid those CEOs salaries.

    3. They are already rich. Many of the public sector workers earn very high salaries compared to the average Americans. Lets talk about another country. In Norway the average wage is aproximatly 270K NOK. In the US, the average wage is approximatly 27K USD. If you earn 700K or more in Norway, you are considered rich. Many public sector workers earn salaries much more than 70K USD, with very good benefits. Benefits you won't get in Norway. And they are getting richer. They want salary increases of 5% per year. That is significantly higher than a working class American.
    Last edited by Camlon; 06-12-12 at 07:41 AM.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Its not arbitrary. If I'm using my property to create a product and pay the workers that work for me the profits of such an venture go to me as I'm putting in all the capital.
    Correct. And please note, the owner is paying the workers for the workers' product, namely labor. The owner then uses this product along with other factors of production to produce a product of his own, which he hopes to sell.

    It is very important to note that by the time the owner's product is ready for sale, the worker has already been paid for his labor, as have all the other factor providers. Whether the owner makes a profit or a loss doesn't matter. The worker's sale of labor to the owner is an independent transaction that is completed prior to the owner's attempt to sell anything.

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