View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #791
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You just refuted that with your very own next two sentences.

    Once again the data refutes your opinion, as I documented above:

    "A Stanford University study found that students at charter schools were more likely to score worse than public schools students than they were to outperform those students - 37% percent of charter schools did worse than comparable public schools, while only 17% did better. The rest, 46%, scored the same."
    Now you don't want to adjust for socio-economic conditions. Also, charter schools are not the same as private schools, and I am a little bit skeptical of the test. However, I am not planning to make this a debate about charter schools.

    Adjusting for social economic conditions is often BS. It does say that public schools in a rich area perform equally well to a rich private schools. However, it does not say that private schools are not better than public schools. Which they are, or else parents would just send their kids to a public school. No need to pay a lot of money for an inferior or equal education.

    The point that I have been making has not been a political point like the one you are trying to make. I am just stating a fact, that private schools teachers tend to be better than public schools teachers. While you stated it was the other way around, which is an incorrect statement based on your faulty thinking that a degree or a certificate make a teacher good.

    I agree that would be ideal, but that depends on the negotiations.
    So, 4.5% would be ideal. But seeing teacher compensation for some teachers increase from 120K to 150K in five years is wild imagination. I have feeling you may struggle a little with maths, and memory.

    I never said that, and those few bad apples need to be weeded out. What I said was that a properly qualified teacher with the necessary degrees and certifications was better than a teacher without the necessary degrees and certifications.
    No, you didn't. You said all teachers who have a degree are good teachers. And please don't ask me to show you where you said it again. One time is enough.

    Also, your change didn't make it correct. No, not all teachers with a degree and certifications are better than those without. Teaching is a skill.
    Last edited by Camlon; 06-12-12 at 06:17 AM.

  2. #792
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Adjusting for social economic conditions is often BS.
    Thanks for your opinion which disagrees with your earlier opinion:

    As public schools in rich areas are going to be good schools, and public schools in poor areas are going to be bad schools. And most public schools are in bad areas. However, private schools in bad areas doesn't exist because poor people can not afford tuition fees.
    Dude, you just described there in your own words the effect of socio-economic conditions, and very well I might add. And of course there are hundreds of studies that show the same thing.



    The point that I have been making has not been a political point like the one you are trying to make. I am just stating a fact, that private schools teachers tend to be better than public schools teachers.
    The facts show they are less qualified, and when scores are analyzed with comparable students they mostly do worse. And I've posted a reference to the Stanford Study that proves it.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #793
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Lets just take it back a step. Different societies split up the proceeds of people's labors differently.
    Someone else's proceeds are not yours to split up.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You have requirements that the board of directors be elected exclusively by the owners instead of some seats going to the employees
    Wow! Imagine that. Allowing the owners of a company to direct it. Oh the humanity!

  5. #795
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post

    generally speaking, when you are fighting the government over rights, you are demanding they do not violate those rights.
    we possess tons and tons of rights ... rights the government does not always deem fit to recognize or protect... but hteir recognition or protection in no way diminishes the fact that we possess them.
    If you do not actually have the right to exercise - then you DO NOT HAVE IT. Period.

    The people only have rights because enough of them forced the government to recognize that right and accept it in law and in practice.
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    stop lying-I never made that claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    How many rich people do you want to kill and take their wealth in order to slake your feelings of being treated unfairly by the "system"?
    I see no claim being made by Turtle. I see only a question.

  7. #797
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Thanks for your opinion which disagrees with your earlier opinion:
    No it doesn't.

    Dude, you just described there in your own words the effect of socio-economic conditions, and very well I might add. And of course there are hundreds of studies that show the same thing.

    The facts show they are less qualified, and when scores are analyzed with comparable students they mostly do worse. And I've posted a reference to the Stanford Study that proves it.
    Here it is obvious you do not understand my point. You first agree with my point that schools in rich areas are better than schools in poor areas. And you have agreed with me that most private schools are in good areas.

    Hence, you are have proven yourself wrong. Private schools are better than public schools.


    Edit: I am still waiting for you to admit you were wrong that all teachers with degrees are good teachers. I am not going let you go just because you stop responding. Why is it so difficult for you to admit you were wrong?
    Last edited by Camlon; 06-12-12 at 07:14 AM.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Why do the rich deserve to keep more of their money than the working class?
    The rich and the working class both deserve to keep all of their money.

  9. #799
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Private schools are better than public schools.
    Is this a rule?

    Does it always hold true?

    Does it hold true for all children?

    Does it hold true for all types of private schools over all types of public schools?

    Does this hold true in all areas of education regardless of subject matter?

    I would love to see the data providing the answers to these questions.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Is this a rule?

    Does it always hold true?

    Does it hold true for all children?

    Does it hold true for all types of private schools over all types of public schools?

    Does this hold true in all areas of education regardless of subject matter?

    I would love to see the data providing the answers to these questions.
    It is a general statement, not an absolute statement. So
    1. No
    2. No
    3. No
    4. No
    5. Depends on how you define it

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