View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #761
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes.



    I said they were paid less than public teachers because they did not have to meet the same educational standards that public school teachers do.



    It is not my opinion. I provided studies that show that public school teachers make less, or even, what other private sector jobs pay for comparable education.




    Please quote where I said that.




    I've already provided you with a list of studies that provide this comparison.

    "This finding, and previous research by the same authors (Biggs and Richwine 2011), are at odds with a large body of research showing that public school teachers and other government workers have total compensation that is lower—or at least no higher—than that of comparable private-sector workers (see, for example, Allegretto, Corcoran, and Mishel 2004, 2008, 2011; Bender and Heywood 2010; Keefe 2010; Munnell et al. 2011; Schmitt 2010). Furthermore, the “teaching penalty” has grown, as teachers’ and other public-sector workers’ pay has declined relative to that of comparable private-sector workers (Allegretto, Corcoran, and Mishel 2008, 2011; Bender and Heywood 2010)."
    I give up. AGAIN you cite SUMMARIES of conclusions of unknowns. Of course if you count a mere handfull of top MILLIONAIRE CEOs with "comparable degrees" in the private average yet the highest POSSIBLE public salary is SES/congress then your "proof" is pure BS. Any top 100 CEO makes 1000x what the average of congress does (using ONLY their gov't salary/benefits).

    Comparable is NOT only education and hours worked. That is pure nonsense, it is like comparing a daycare worker and a plumber, apples and oranges. Try comparing POTUS and an NBA star player or rock star, that will prove your point too, Obama is WAY underpaid. LOL
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-12-12 at 03:25 AM.
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  2. #762
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Again, you begin with an unproven premise.
    Unproven?! Are you seriously suggesting that just having a degree makes you a good teacher?

    I think it is fairly obvious by now that you lack any form for arguments, and when you lack arguments you just try to be difficult and annoying. The poor of America outnumber you. They are not just going to go for CEOs. They are going to go for rich liberals like you as well. You saw what happened in Wisconsin.
    Last edited by Camlon; 06-12-12 at 03:24 AM.

  3. #763
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    NO. This is the biggest problem with public education; it costs far more than private education, per student, yet yields worse results BOTH according to standardized student test scores and graduation rates. How is it POSSIBLE that these less qualified, lower paid, priavte school teachers get better results, in fact, so much better, that nearly ALL that have a choice, pick these private schools for their own children to attend?
    That's an easy one, private schools don't have to deal with teaching every student regardless of their capacity to learn. Public schools do.
    Last edited by Catawba; 06-12-12 at 03:26 AM.
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well I guess that sums it up. You're willing to walk away from a win-win situation on the basis of a slogan. So be it. I don't think that's an intelligent way to live. Easy and clear cut, sure. Smart, no.
    I listed the facts of the matter. Its hardly a slogan.

    Just because you have nothing to beat the facts doesn't just make them part of a slogan either.

    And its hardly a win-win if you are going to make that a policy. Its one thing to make it a business decision by the owners and something entirely different to make it a government policy.
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-12-12 at 03:27 AM.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Unproven?! Are you seriously suggesting that just having a degree makes you a good teacher?
    Being qualified and properly credentialed definitely makes for a better teacher than one that isn't qualified and properly credentialed.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That's an easy one, private schools don't have to deal with teaching every student regardless of their capacity to learn. Public schools do.
    So you think private schools don't deal with kids of all capacities to learn? Why is that everyone thinks every kid that goes to private school is exactly the same?

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    I am still waiting for you to show me how increasing compensation for some teachers from 120K to 150K, will benefit the poor.
    And I'm still waiting for you to show me the proof of your statement that teachers got an increase to $150k that your question was based on.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Being qualified and properly credentialed definitely makes for a better teacher than one that isn't qualified and properly credentialed.
    No, you said that all teachers with masters degrees are good teachers.

    Having a masters degree is completely unnecessary. We are talking about students trying to learn addition, alphabet, reading, etc. The best way to ensure good teachers is to fire bad teachers. Except in the public sector, it is impossible to fire a bad teachers. Hence a lot of teachers in public sector is quite bad. Of course you don't know that because you have no experience with bad schools in America.
    Last edited by Camlon; 06-12-12 at 03:44 AM.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    And I'm still waiting for you to show me the proof of your statement that teachers got an increase to $150k that your question was based on.
    I never said they did. I said that if teacher unions are strong, like you want them to be. Then don't be surprised if a substantial number of teachers increase their compensation from 120K to 150K in 5 years. How much do you think the poor will earn in 5 years?

    I ask you, increasing the compensation of teachers from 120K to 150K. How does that benefit the poor?

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    No, you said having a masters degree will make you better than any teacher without a masters degree.
    Please quote me and we will go from there. Your interpretations of what I've said in the past have been less than accurate, to say the least.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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