View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #721
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    All you have proven is that non-unionized private school teachers make substandard pay and benefits, far below the average private sector job with comparable education requirements. So you have demonstrated only why we need public unions. Is that the point you were going for?
    What you are pretty much saying is that we need public unions, so public workers can stay overpaid at the expense of the poor.

    Again, how does it benefit a poor person with a salary of 25K with compensation, if we increase the salary of a teacher from 120K with compensation to 150K? If the teacher unions remain strong, then that is going to happen.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well the government is "forcing" the money to go to him currently. Same difference. The law says that the owner gets the money. No different from the law saying that the owner and the employees share the profits. For example, in the US, the law says that in a public corporation the owners have to be the ones that elect the board of directors. It could just as easily say that the board should be elected by a combination of the owners and the employees. That is no more or less force.
    What? He is the owner of the goods that created the produce and all the produce is owned by him as it was produced with his property. There is no doubt if someone else took the earnings as their own along the supply chain they would be stealing from him. It is not forcing the property elsewhere like your example but keeping it where it was from the start. You are still failing to be honest.

    If you have a conspiracy theory, just lay it out. I think that he believes that the rich should pay more taxes because it is obvious that the rich should pay more taxes.
    Lol, follow along the talking point that liberals point out about taxes. It should be obvious since you are a liberal. When liberals bring up the fair tax what do they say is the problem?
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-12-12 at 01:58 AM.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    What you are pretty much saying is that we need public unions, so public workers can stay overpaid at the expense of the poor.
    No, that is a bizzaro world interpretation of what I said. What I actually said was, "All you have proven is that non-unionized private school teachers make substandard pay and benefits, far below the average private sector job with comparable education requirements."

    Again, how does it benefit a poor person with a salary of 25K with compensation, if we increase the salary of a teacher from 120K with compensation to 150K? If the teacher unions remain strong, then that is going to happen.
    There is no evidence of that whatsoever.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'm interested to know why you think education level = a certain acceptable wage and when it doesn't there is some reason to be outraged.

    Any answers?
    I have no interest in discussions with you.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #725
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    All you have proven is that non-unionized private school teachers make substandard pay and benefits, far below the average private sector job with comparable education requirements. So you have demonstrated only why we need public unions. Is that the point you were going for?
    Yet another brilliant debate strategy. First you assert that public teacher salaries are low, for the "same" education level, then assert that they are the correct "standard", but that private schools are somehow "sweat shops" and pay "slave wages" compared to public schools. Now we must examine WHY any teacher would work for a private school for those "substandard" wages, even stranger, why anyone would pay to put their precious children in them. You just keep going in circles.

    If a private school can get a qualified teacher for $11K/year less than a public school can, then which institution is OVERPAYING the teachers? Well gosh, it must be those stupid taxpayers AGAIN, forking out $1K/month more for their public school teachers than the private competition is paying. Maybe that is why vouchers are so feared by the teacher's union, they would be out of work, or forced to work for the lower private wages, like most taxpayers are. Those rich people are so dumb too, PAYING to send their kids to private schools, with those lousy underpaid teachers, not getting that better quality FREE public education that uses the "best and brightest", and higher paid, public school teachers. Hmm...
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-12-12 at 02:18 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What? He is the owner of the goods that created the produce and all the produce is owned by him as it was produced with his property.
    You're just stating the current rule- the profits go to the owner rather than the workers. That doesn't advance your position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Lol, follow along the talking point that liberals point out about taxes. It should be obvious since you are a liberal. When liberals bring up the fair tax what do they say is the problem?
    Again, I have no idea what conspiracy theory you're cooking up. If you have one, lay it out. I'm not going to sit here and try to guess what you've cooked up.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I have no interest in discussions with you.
    I guess you can't actually figure out a way it makes sense eh?

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yet another brilliant debate strategy. First you assert that public teacher salaries are low, for the "same" education level, then assert that they are the correct "standard", but that private schools are somehow "sweat shops" and pay "slave wages" compared to public schools. Now we must examine WHY any teacher would work for a private school for those "substandard" wages, even stranger, why anyone would pay to put their precious childern in them. You just keep going in circles.

    If a private school can get a qualified teacher for $11K/year less than a public school can, then which institution is OVERPAYING the teachers? Well gosh, it must be those stupid taxpayers AGAIN, forking out $1K/month more for their public school teachers than the private competition is paying. Maybe that is why vouchers are so feared by the teacher's union, they would be out of work, or forced to work for the lower private wages, like most taxpayers are. Those rich people are so dumb too, PAYING to send their kids to private schools, with those lousy underpaid teachers, not getting that better quality FREE public education that uses the "best and brightest", and higher paid, public school teachers. Hmm...
    That is not what I said. When you decide to discuss what I actually said, please let me know.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You're just stating the current rule- the profits go to the owner rather than the workers. That doesn't advance your position.
    The workers have no claims to the property. The claims would have to be created out of thin air and bypass the property rights of the owner for your solution. I can't actually believe you think these two things are comparable.

    Again, I have no idea what conspiracy theory you're cooking up. If you have one, lay it out. I'm not going to sit here and try to guess what you've cooked up.
    Really, no idea what I'm talking about? I can't believe that. You know perfectly fine that if people that are right below him get taxed along with him it will hurt them more than it hurts him and thus it works to his advantage. Maybe if you thought about the argument put out by liberals on the flat tax it would of been obvious?
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-12-12 at 02:36 AM.

  10. #730
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The workers have no claims to the property. The claims would have to be created out of thin air for your solution. I can't actually believe you think these two things are comparable.



    Really, no idea what I'm talking about? I can't believe that. You know perfectly fine that if people that are right below him get taxed along with him it will hurt them more than it hurts him and thus it works to his advantage. Maybe if you thought about the argument put out by liberals on the fair tax it would of been obvious?
    More is relative. If both are int he higher income brackets, it's doubtful they will even notice it in any realistic way. It would likely have no effect on buying, or hurt their budgets in any tangable way.


    However, more basic, no business is better than that businesses workers. That is true whether the service is public or private. It is poor business and poor policy to attack workers too much.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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