View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #641
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Uh that has absolutely no relevance to what I posted.
    I blew you away there. Refute my argument.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    On your part, as usual.

    So stop evading and tell us what percentage of your fellow citizens would you be willing to have live in poverty so that the rich could maintain their record wealth?
    what a moronic question. Its the usual Zero sum game BS we get from the whiners on the left who pretend that their failure and lack of success is the fault of those who have prospered and won. You want wealth? stop blaming others for your failures and start making success your personal responsibility. You will never win until you accept that you are responsible for your own destiny

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    LIE OF THE WEEK-Catawba claiming that HALF OF THE COUNTRY LIVES AT or NEAR A POVERTY LEVEL
    Close to half of all Americans live near poverty

    Again, what percentage of your fellow citizens living in poverty would you be willing to accept to maintain the record wealth of the 1%?
    Last edited by Catawba; 06-11-12 at 11:19 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #644
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    as is the notion that they are all poor...

    I wonder, in the absence of a public union, what would their job environment look like?
    the usually argument for a union is that the employer would take advantage of their labor and further profit off of them ... folks like to talk about private labor reverting back to having to work 40 hours a day , with no days offs, in sweatshops and such ( which i understand is merely rhetoric)... but how would the public sector exploit labor?
    Before there were public unions POLITICS ruled, people got promoted based on political affiliations, nepotism and sometimes sexual escapades...people were fired for or demoted to make room for cronies and buddies.
    I worked a public job before and after there were unions....Police were exploited to do questionable personal investigations and Much more...all the abuses politicians do at all lvls of government were translated into public employment and affected all employees, unions put a stop to all that garbage.

  5. #645
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Uh, no . .. If you buy a mortage that requires a certain monthly contribution, the amount of the mortgae never changes: remember, that with teachers, in some states, they don't py into social secuirty by law, so their pension is it. Teachers don't set a goal, like $10,000,000; but they would like their pension contributions as high as they can get them: it's like dividends in reverse right?

    So, teachers are worthless to you 'er what?
    I don't know what you're talking about -- and neither do you.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  6. #646
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Close to half of all Americans live near poverty

    Again, what percentage of your fellow citizens living in poverty would you be willing to accept to maintain the record wealth of the 1%?
    its a stupid question. Those who do well owe nothing to you. Your life and your situation is note their fault

  7. #647
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Close to half of all Americans live near poverty

    Again, what percentage of your fellow citizens living in poverty would you be willing to accept to maintain the record wealth of the 1%?
    BTW that is an idiotic bit of propaganda you quoted. Peoples world? MIght as well cite the Daily Kos or DU

  8. #648
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Obviously you understand that that would be a ridiculous inference to draw, no?
    I thought correlation always means causation.

    You're assuming, incorrectly, that the measure for the value of a profession is always how much profit employers can generate by hiring people to do the job. That would only be true for professions without major positive externalities. Education has huge positive externalities. The actual student only collects a portion of the benefit of their education. Future employers, future businesses they serve as customers for, people who benefit from things they invent, all benefit from that education too. Not to mention people who benefit from having more educated voters. Given all the massive positive externalities, the market salary doesn't really tell you much.
    Wouldn't the same logic apply for firing regulations for teachers? If teachers are so important, shouldn't we be able to fire bad teachers?

    If the high wages means that the only brightest could become teachers, and bad teachers get kicked out, then I wouldn't complain. Problem right now, is that the public sector union only care about their own wages, they don't really care about student performance. US, adjusted for costs,pays more than any country for its teachers. Still performance is terrible. Americans do badly in the PISA survey, and the poor do not receive a good education. The only reason US do not do even worse, is because private schools pull up the average


    Not sure what you mean. The poor can't compete with public sector wages? That doesn't make sense. Employers have to compete with other employers for hires. Workers have to compete with other workers. When wages go up that increases the competition on employers, not workers. Maybe you can explain more. I don't think I'm following.
    Tell me, how can a poor person without qualifications, get a public sector job. There are no public sector jobs for high school dropouts. They have to work at gas stations, restaurants, and corner shops. They are all private.

    If public sector increases their wages, then you are correct that the rich private sector will increase their wages, because qualified workers can get public sector jobs. But this is not true for private sector who employs poor people. Higher public wages do not mean more private sector jobs for poor people. The ones who employ poor people will not experience more competition. They will pay the same, possibly less because the employers have to pay higher taxes, or higher costs. That means poor people will experience no increases in wages, but higher costs and higher taxes.

    So public sector unions, make poor poorer.

  9. #649
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what a moronic question.
    No just more of your evasion. You made the claim that the working class was too well off for the US to be competitive with China. So how poor are you willing for the working class to be the US to be competitive?

    Stop weaseling.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #650
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    No just more of your evasion. You made the claim that the working class was too well off for the US to be competitive with China. So how poor are you willing for the working class to be the US to be competitive?

    Stop weaseling.

    economic reality and global labor markets constantly bitch slap your fuzzy thinking when it comes to your dream world.

    I say let the chips fall where the market drops them. It sure beats government intervention designed to appeal to the loser mentality and the "poor poor pitiful me" attitude that more than a few moon bat lefties constantly exhibit

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