View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #631
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    All right, so that means when the percentage of people in public union increases, then wages go down? That doesn't sound well for public sector unions.
    Obviously you understand that that would be a ridiculous inference to draw, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    So? How many people can get those kind of jobs? Average median salary for law graduates is 62K. And thats a hard degree. But we need to look at what is an overpaid job. If the private market would pay for instance a garbage man 100K USD, then it is fine if the government pays 100K. If the private market would only pay 40K, then a person who earns 100K for a similar job is overpaid.

    Among teachers, especially in some states, earnings are considerably better in public sector than private sector.
    You're assuming, incorrectly, that the measure for the value of a profession is always how much profit employers can generate by hiring people to do the job. That would only be true for professions without major positive externalities. Education has huge positive externalities. The actual student only collects a portion of the benefit of their education. Future employers, future businesses they serve as customers for, people who benefit from things they invent, all benefit from that education too. Not to mention people who benefit from having more educated voters. Given all the massive positive externalities, the market salary doesn't really tell you much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    That point is right, but funny enough you forgot about one group. The poor.

    The poor can not compete with public sector wages, so their wages won't go up. They will just see their costs and taxes will go up. Also, the quality of public sector services will drop. Public Sector unions make poor poorer.
    Not sure what you mean. The poor can't compete with public sector wages? That doesn't make sense. Employers have to compete with other employers for hires. Workers have to compete with other workers. When wages go up that increases the competition on employers, not workers. Maybe you can explain more. I don't think I'm following.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  2. #632
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from Centinel



    that is called reality. It is the way it always has been and always will be. If the society you live in does not demand from the government that you have a specific right they want to have - they you do NOT have it.

    Again, that is basic reality and the way of the world.
    I think you confuse protection/recognition of rights with the rights themselves...
    fighting for protection or recognition of a right is not the same thing as fighting for the granting of a right.

    generally speaking, when you are fighting the government over rights, you are demanding they do not violate those rights.
    we possess tons and tons of rights ... rights the government does not always deem fit to recognize or protect... but hteir recognition or protection in no way diminishes the fact that we possess them.

    for instance, the right to freely associate... one would be hard pressed to say we do not possess that right, but here we are fighting for ( and some against) the government recognizing and protecting that right.. we argue over that right when we argue unions and same sex marriage.
    there are valid arguments on all sides as to why, or not, the government should recognize and protect those rights, or aspects of those rights.

  3. #633
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Nice evasion which I have come to expect from you. but the fact is, in many areas, innovation is not going to make up for the massive overpricing of American labor.
    What labor overpricing are you talking about? Half the country now lives at or near poverty. What percentage of the population do you think should live in poverty for us to be competitive with China?

    And if a "fat cat" can hire a very skilled Chinese laborer for one fifth of what you cost, why should he hire you? and that Chinese laborer isn't voting for people who are going to jack up that "fat cat's" taxes like you are. You see, hiring Union labor that is overpriced not only hurts the competitive ability of the company, it also is counterproductive given that unions funnel money towards the parasites who often want the company to be taxed even more.

    Only 11% of the population belong to unions (public and private). So that is a load of horse****!

    Tell me, what's the incentive for the working class to vote for those that think the working class are too rich, while half are living in, or near, poverty?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #634
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is a good slogan but what is your solution to the concept of competition? If a chinese worker can do the same work as an American worker but yet demands one fourth the wage how can a company that uses American Labor compete?
    Competition in this instance isn't about lowering the amount of compensation for those who produce the GDP in America anymore than it's about lowering the cost and cutting back on the ammo or weaponry we give our "valiant and heroic fighting men and women who fight for our freedom and democarcy around the world!! "

    It's about making a better mouse trap. And 'Merica in the last generation has been about paying our competiton to make a better mouse trp - for US.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  5. #635
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What labor overpricing are you talking about? Half the country now lives at or near poverty. What percentage of the population do you think should live in poverty for us to be competitive with China?




    Only 11% of the population belong to unions (public and private). So that is a load of horse****!

    Tell me, what's the incentive for the working class to vote for those that think the working class are too rich, while half are living in, or near, poverty?
    More evasions

    a company would be idiotic to pay too much for labor-especially labor that contributes to enemies of the company

  6. #636
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    [QUOTE=Jenn;1060583642]
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post


    Well, sh*t! I have no excuse except I had been spending some time with Tom Collins!
    Well, there you go........
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #637
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    LIE OF THE WEEK-Catawba claiming that HALF OF THE COUNTRY LIVES AT or NEAR A POVERTY LEVEL

  8. #638
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Competition in this instance isn't about lowering the amount of compensation for those who produce the GDP in America anymore than it's about lowering the cost and cutting back on the ammo or weaponry we give our "valiant and heroic fighting men and women who fight for our freedom and democarcy around the world!! "

    It's about making a better mouse trap. And 'Merica in the last generation has been about paying our competiton to make a better mouse trp - for US.
    Uh that has absolutely no relevance to what I posted.

  9. #639
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    [QUOTE=Jenn;1060583642]
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post


    Well, sh*t! I have no excuse except I had been spending some time with Tom Collins!
    Mr. Collins is a very nice guy. My cousin Lagavulin and I often share a quiet moment and a cigar on the porch.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  10. #640
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    More evasions
    On your part, as usual.

    So stop evading and tell us what percentage of your fellow citizens would you be willing to have live in poverty so that the rich could maintain their record wealth?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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