View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #591
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Whoops! My bad!
    Last edited by Jenn; 06-11-12 at 08:29 PM. Reason: wrong thread

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Do you know what the word "initiate" means?
    I don't see it in this quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    Whether you belong to an association is irrelevant. If you murder someone, that person's protection agency will come to you looking for compensation. You do not "get off" just because you don't belong to some association.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by "power over others", but I am unaware of any rich person who has any power over me (other than those in the government, of course.)
    Then you truly are wearing blinders.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    [QUOTE=Catawba;1060582992]You just did it yourself! It was not the teachers that hurt state's economies, it was the recession caused by deregulation of the banks. That is what crushed state budgets, not that teachers, firefighters and policemen were being overcompensated.

    That is just more sleight of hand that so many conservatives seem to get distracted by.

    Gotta throw my BS flag on that. Try derivatives.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. We are discussing de facto, not de jure.

    2. In fact this is what occurs with regards to most major entrenched special interest groups. It just so happens that when "government" is the interest group, there is no balancing faction. Just as government unions face no profitability check on their rent-seeking (as their private counterparts do), they face no check on their control.
    Like I said, you have no clue what the laws are here so you're just talking out your ass. You assume some coercive force on the part of public sector unions but the major coercive force of private sector unions, the ability to strike, has been stripped from them. Like I said, no one here can "take over government". Your arguments fails.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  6. #596
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So we have unions so people can assume loyalty has a meaning and instead of being involved in to better themselves they can instead demand and force the owners to do their bidding. Did I get it right? Or is it perhaps that has to do with their effectiveness and no so much why associations of workers exist. Hmmm..



    Its appears to be working fine. What exactly isn't working? The only problem is that we aren't competitive and right now we just floating a bit on the fact of having more freedoms than china.

    Your analysis of collective bargaining and loyalty is so far fetched form reality as to be a sad case of profound ignorance.

    The Teamsters that I grew up with had business agents that would give their word on a new contract at a local bar that both the Teamsters and company owners frequented and the deals were done on a hand shake!! Signatures were only a formality!! Those companies and our local union had been in business together, in some cases, going back to the turn on the 20th century. Loyalty you ask?? A union contract is a benefit that comes under the freedom of association guaranteed by The Constitution of the United States America and the concept of collective bargaining goes back to the medieval
    stone masons of continental Europe! They had a highly skilled and necessary skill that was in demand. You sign a labor contract every time you take your car to a mechanic! Do you think those places pay their mechanics $100 an hour for labor???

    Man, dude - get a grip. Company loyalty is going by the way side because nobody has a long term job anymore. Everybody’s an independent contractor . . . No, you should spend more time actually talking to union people instead of attacking their characters: bums under a contract have nothing to worry about with respect to the company; ooohhh noo!; the worry of the bum is rested in his fellow union members. Because they are the ones that are going to run him out of job: he draws too much attention.

    And, you say that the free market is working fine huh? Have you looked outside lately? Were you there in Sept 2007, or did you just wake up?

    No, like I said, you gave two great holes to fill with your completely uninformed and actually laughable opinion.

    Man: unbelieveable.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Nice pull. Astoria has a population of 1,200 people. I'm surprised they have a school district. Those salaries do not represent anything even close to average. I can't pull the entire data base into DP -- suffice to say your "average" is incorrect. If it isn't? How about a link from a credible source?
    Fair enough. I don't know anything about Astoria. I'm sure that isn't representative as they were all well below the average except the guy with 14 years of experience. But, keep in mind that you live by Chicago. Cost of living and salaries are presumably way higher there than in most of the state. What you encounter in your area isn't going to be representative either.

    I just clicked on the one right after Astoria:

    Alderman, Kim $37,661 - 6 yrs
    Anderson, Mary $35,760 - 24 yrs (part time)
    Armitage, Nicole $37,034 - 3 yrs
    Barrett, Elizabeth $47,462 - 12 yrs
    Basso, Lisa $59,977 - 25 yrs
    Benz, Joann $53,312 - 9 yrs
    Bessert, Jennifer $48,634 - 18 yrs

    Still seems like the average for starting pay I'm finding is about right.

    I got it from here- Teacher Salary | Teaching Salaries in IL : 58686
    Last edited by teamosil; 06-11-12 at 09:01 PM.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    [QUOTE=Jenn;1060583179]
    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You just did it yourself! It was not the teachers that hurt state's economies, it was the recession caused by deregulation of the banks. That is what crushed state budgets, not that teachers, firefighters and policemen were being overcompensated.

    That is just more sleight of hand that so many conservatives seem to get distracted by.

    Gotta throw my BS flag on that. Try derivatives.

    LOL! Evidently, you do not understand that derivatives were not an issue before deregulation removed the firewall that separated investment banks and commercial banks.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The first district I checked was Astoria CUSD 1. The first seven teachers in the list alphabetically are:

    Arnett, Melissa $15,423
    Bair, Lindy $27,943
    Banwart, Douglas $32,256
    Bastien, Garry $29,530
    Boggs, Bobette $39,977
    Bollinger, Sharenda $26,783
    Cheatum, Kathy $30,807

    So, out of those, only Bobette Boggs makes more than $37k. Boggs is working full time and has 14 years of experience teaching.
    For the record, the website she provided you is a conservative owned website. My mother, who was a Chicago inner city teacher for over 30 years, has looked herself up on there before and said that her salary was incorrectly reported (it was reported higher than it is), so I wouldn't trust the numbers.

    Here's a clue for how biased they are: They refer to education on global warming as "Global Warming Indoctrination."

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    For the record, the website she provided you is a conservative owned website. My mother, who was a Chicago inner city teacher for over 30 years, has looked herself up on there before and said that her salary was incorrectly reported (it was reported higher than it is), so I wouldn't trust the numbers.

    Here's a clue for how biased they are: They refer to education on global warming as "Global Warming Indoctrination."
    So you mean "conservative" in the same sense that failing out of high school or going to prison for blowing up your meth cooking trailer are "conservative", not the William F. Buckley sense of "conservative", right?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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