View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #51
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    The one party that has the absolute right to hire you, possesses the absolute right to fire you as well. You work at the pleasure of the employer.
    for exercising my right to join/form a union? i don't think so.....you want to fire me, do it for a legitimate reason...like i don't show up for work on a regular basis, i constantly do a piss poor job , produce piss poor quality, constantly not performing my job in a safe manner, causing safety concerns for my fellow employees....for joining a union? i don't think so.

  2. #52
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yes, it really is. And it's a foolish one, built around the notion that people do not have individual circumstances.
    What? I'm talking about specific situations where all teachers in a public school directly benefit from something that a union has done. In those situations, people who do not pay union dues are free riders.

    except that:

    5. Half of the schools in the district do not need security guards, and yet the teachers who work in those schools have their compensation reduced to pay for the guard that they do not need.
    I'm talking about specific situations where all teachers in a public school directly benefit from something that a union has done. In other words, when I say "benefit," I've already established that the security guards are wanted or needed which is what makes the people who don't pay union dues free riders.

    People are individuals, and circumstances vary. That is why socialization of compensation is typically not that great a bargain for many who are then told that they have to pay up "because they are benefiting." You are confusing your beliefs with facts.
    I have not confused anything. My argument has been based on the premise that teachers are benefiting. I've stated that since the beginning. Examples where union members must pay for things they don't want or need are entirely different scenarios.

  3. #53
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well in the postal service you have the national alliance which is not a union. and supervisors have NAPS-National Association of Postal Supervisors who can represent EAS 15 or higher (I believe) employees who are too high to be in the APWU or the Mail handlers etc unions. Assistant United States Attorneys have NAAUSA
    none of those are bargaining units but they do what you want in public sector employment.

    the problem with Pub Sect unions is that the bargaining is not in good faith because the union is often bargaining with people they helped elect or with people who are subordinate to the people they helped elect and the taxpayers often do not have representation at the table.

    in the private sector management represents the owners-unions represents the workers and if management gives too cozy a deal the owners are going to fire them. If the union gets too good a deal they lose their jobs

    if a public sector union gets too good a deal the taxpayers are forced to foot the bill-public sector unions cannot kill the host like greedy private sector unions can
    That's my main problem with public sector unions. They are very much involved in politics and try to gain support from elected officials via donations and other incentives. It's corrupt and should not go on. I also don't believe a body like a public sector union should be able to essentially apportion government funds they way they do through their negotiations.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  4. #54
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Well, according to hte new montra of "Build and Buy American", your dire prediction is what is doomed. As for Public employee Unions; well, we'll habe to wait and see. JFK entered thier roght to organize into law, so said law is going to have to overturned first, and that is not likely.

    Historically, nonunion beliefs in this country had worked themselves into such a zenith that both the military and police were showing up to picket lines, rifles in hand, and opening fire on strikers; that didn't last.

    These times in AMerican hisotry have ebbs and flows: this way and that way. We're just getting into this for real now.
    still waiting for someone to tell me what legitimate need is filled by public sector unions

  5. #55
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if every available laborer joins the union than the union will be able to get its terms. If the company can hire enough workers who aren't in the union should lose. that's the way it should be. and yes, I should have the absolute right to fire you for being in a union.
    you are arguing out of both sides of your mouth, you say you should have the right to be able to join a union, but turn around and say you should have the absolute authority to terminate someone for excercising that right...don't think so.

  6. #56
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    That's my main problem with public sector unions. They are very much involved in politics and try to gain support from elected officials via donations and other incentives. It's corrupt and should not go on. I also don't believe a body like a public sector union should be able to essentially apportion government funds they way they do through their negotiations.
    Don't all unions get involved? And don't employers and othe rinterest groups? What separates public unions as different?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #57
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    for exercising my right to join/form a union? i don't think so.....you want to fire me, do it for a legitimate reason...like i don't show up for work on a regular basis, i constantly do a piss poor job , produce piss poor quality, constantly not performing my job in a safe manner, causing safety concerns for my fellow employees....for joining a union? i don't think so.
    there should be no government enforced right to join a union and not be fired. If you can convince enough workers to join the union the union will exist. If not, them's the breaks-

  8. #58
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    for exercising my right to join/form a union? i don't think so.....you want to fire me, do it for a legitimate reason...like i don't show up for work on a regular basis, i constantly do a piss poor job , produce piss poor quality, constantly not performing my job in a safe manner, causing safety concerns for my fellow employees....for joining a union? i don't think so.
    You do not have a right to someone else's money. If you decide not to pay someone else for your labor anymore (so long as there are no contractual obligations delineating specifics on this procedure), then you have the right to cease doing so. You do not have a right to come demand that I give you $20 for which you will mow my lawn, and if you have been mowing my lawn, past performance does not give you the right to demand that I continue to do so. I have the right to tell you I wish to now do it myself, or pay the neighbors kid to do it instead. to

  9. #59
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    you are arguing out of both sides of your mouth, you say you should have the right to be able to join a union, but turn around and say you should have the absolute authority to terminate someone for excercising that right...don't think so.
    you as usual don't understand the point. You have a right to be late to work. the government should not punish you for that but if your employer fires you, that is his right. You have the right to come to work in a miniskirt, fishnets and heels but if you are a guy and your employer fires you-too bad. On the other hand, if you are indispensable, he might not fire you because your "issues" are not so deleterious as to overcome the benefits you bring your boss. So you should have the right to join a union but if your boss doesn't need you enough too bad

  10. #60
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Don't all unions get involved? And don't employers and othe rinterest groups? What separates public unions as different?
    Private Sector Unions require that their business continue to do well in order for them to survive. Public Sector Unions do not. Ergo, their incentive structures are different.

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