View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #561
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    I guess I fail to understand your ‘definition’ but maybe your overlooked the fact that I DID answer his post. Here is what I got:



    Thanks for playing…
    Well, your answer didn't make much sense to me; so . . . And I can see here that you don't play very well.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  2. #562
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So we have unions so people can assume loyalty has a meaning and instead of being involved in to better themselves they can instead demand and force the owners to do their bidding. Did I get it right? Or is it perhaps that has to do with their effectiveness and no so much why associations of workers exist. Hmmm..



    Its appears to be working fine. What exactly isn't working? The only problem is that we aren't competitive and right now we just floating a bit on the fact of having more freedoms than china.
    I have to go right now, so I'll be back in a couple of hours: this post is so rediculous it's actuall funny; so I'm going to think about my response for while.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  3. #563
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    That was an example of current laws in place to protect employees against uscrupulous emploerys: it was an exterme, but it made the point quite well. Collective bargaining protects employees against unscrupulous employers as well, ad said contracts tend to minimize an cheating employers desire to violate any of teh laws . . .

    Funny thing: I don't know why coservatives and Libertaians (yourself notwithstanding) think that "open carry" is good, but collective bargaining is bad . . .

    I just don't get that.
    Collective bargaining isn't bad. Any group of people ought to be free to bargain collectively with an employer and negotiate a contract that applies to them only.

    What is bad, however, is the government telling an employer that he must negotiate with this group, and that he may negotiate with this group and no other.

  4. #564
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Well, your answer didn't make much sense to me; so . . . And I can see here that you don't play very well.
    What specifically was ambiguous? And appearantly he seemed to have no problem understanding...wonder why?
    Last edited by Dickieboy; 06-11-12 at 05:43 PM.

  5. #565
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    That was an example of current laws in place to protect employees against uscrupulous emploerys: it was an exterme, but it made the point quite well.
    Try other people from bothering them 99.9% of the time.

    Collective bargaining protects employees against unscrupulous employers as well, ad said contracts tend to minimize an cheating employers desire to violate any of teh laws . . .
    If you say so.

    Funny thing: I don't know why coservatives and Libertaians (yourself notwithstanding) think that "open carry" is good, but collective bargaining is bad . . .
    How in the **** are the two topics connected?

    I just don't get that.
    Do you get how the two topics are connected? I sure as hell don't.

  6. #566
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Contracts will be honored. Contracts are, generally, two or three years long. You seem to think that when a teacher (or other public employee) is hired, the contract that's in place for that 2- or 3-year period should be in place for thirty years. Think about it, Haymarket. That's not the way it works. I think you know that, though.

    Hypothetical: Teacher is hired under a contract promises "X $$" for their pension when they've fulfilled such-and-such. THAT promise is funded yearly. Let's say that same promise is in effect over two or three contracts -- and then changed. The law says that employee is entitled to the funding that was put aside for them during that initial contract. It in NO WAY guarantees that pension amount. Every contract negotiation is a new deal.
    Baloney. If somebody works under contract which renews and continues over a thirty or forty year period equating to a pension - then that pension is a sacred contract.
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So we have unions so people can assume loyalty has a meaning and instead of being involved in to better themselves they can instead demand and force the owners to do their bidding. Did I get it right? Or is it perhaps that has to do with their effectiveness and no so much why associations of workers exist. Hmmm..


    that does not even make sense.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #568
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    Given your proximity to ‘ground zero’ and your occupation I presume you are involved somewhat in this subject directly. What is the desired/proposed solution to this situation in Detroit? Given the reduction in population where will the funds come from to solidify the ‘contracts that have been in place between the legally constituted representatives…having fulfilled and met their obligations over thirty or forty years of employment’? Should the citizens of Michigan or the US be required to finance these locally promoted obligations?

    Ps. Not looking for an argument but rather further insight.
    You ask a good question. In the end, I believe what this comes down to is a simple question: are we a people of our word in which we honor our word, our promises and our commitments or are we not?

    How we answer that says as much about America as anything we have ever done as a people and as a nation.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    *Yawn* The fact is that if they are paying you they can fire you if you cost too much and no amount of twenty-five years loyalty changes it either.

    Oh and btw check how the world market works again. You appear to missing the point of it.
    EVERYONE: Please read this post from Henrin. Then read it again. Then read it again. Pay attention to every word he wrote.

    The next time anybody identifies themselves or their ideas as LIBERTARIAN - remember this post. Remember what is behind it. Remember the type of society that this sort of ideological madness would produce.

    Ask yourself is that the type of society I want to both live in and work in? Is that the sort of society you want your children and grandchildren to live in and work in?

    Do we want a libertarian based society where you have a pension after thirty years but hardly anyone ever gets the thirty years in a job because they can get fired at 29 years, 11 months and 29 days because there is no loyalty and no union and no contract rights and no low to support you?

    Remember that post. Remember what ideology is behind it.

    Recognize the enemy. Deal with them accordingly repudiating their ideas and their ersatz ideology.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #570
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Yo' Henrin! You got any fun plans for next weekend?

    If so, thank the union.

    LOL!

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

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