View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
Page 54 of 124 FirstFirst ... 444525354555664104 ... LastLast
Results 531 to 540 of 1237

Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #531
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,148

    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Of course it is...theres been some turncoat scum because they are afraid they have to get re elected....how about this...two democrats both leadership...one in charge of the senate in jersey...hes an x Ironworker union Organizer and the other was the Electrical unions president or vice president. Both have taken huge amounts of union money for years...both voted for christies bone the public workers bills...without them he could not have passed it....after they voted for it and passed it...they were quite dismayed that unions told them the gravy train has ended...they said dont judge us on that one vote...judge us on all our votes...yeah sure LOL...

    Heres one of them not the Iron worker Organizer

    He changed his site some...it used to PROUDLY dispaly Ironworker union organizer...now hes downplayed it...and it says

    General Organizer, International Association of Ironworkers....heres a kicker for ya...he collects a pension with cost of living increases and full medical benefits from the ironworkers...the same things he tried to strip of state workers....now he will collect a state pension...with cost of living and full medical...see christie and the legislature didnt TOUCH their pensions or benefits...
    Christie has totally overwhelmed this dumbo...christie has categorically beaten him in every single foray since day one.


    Stephen M. Sweeney (D)
    I don't see a turncoat here. I see a man who has realized that private sector unions require a properly functioning private sector in order to thrive, and that public sector unions are threats to that private sectors' function via their demands on the state and local fiscs.

    However, I would agree Christie has outplayed him. He's not any kind of conservative I would want at the top of the ticket, but Christie as Labor Secretary or on the NLRB has some interesting possibilities.
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-11-12 at 10:45 AM.

  2. #532
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,669

    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. We are discussing de facto, not de jure.

    2. In fact this is what occurs with regards to most major entrenched special interest groups. It just so happens that when "government" is the interest group, there is no balancing faction. Just as government unions face no profitability check on their rent-seeking (as their private counterparts do), they face no check on their control.
    Ah, but they do. That is the precise point if this thread. When we the sheeple (voters and taxpayers) SEE what is happening (or has happened) as "wrong" then we elect people to "correct" it. There is no "stone tablet" (or contract) that says gov't workers have "jobs for life" or may only receive POSITIVE adjustments in pay and/or benefits. Our SS/Medicare "deal" is constantly being "adjusted" often long after we start "contributing" to it (by force of law, no less, as we neither volunteered for it nor may we quit it) and, as of late, not in a POSITIVE direction. ;-)
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #533
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It's your link:


    Family Taxpayers Foundation



    Arnett, Melissa

    $15,423



    Bair, Lindy

    $27,943



    Banwart, Douglas

    $32,256


    Do you know another district?
    I rather like this:

    Governor of the State of Illinois: $150,691
    Mayor of the City of Chicago: $210,000
    Secretary-General of the United Nations: $225,000
    President of the United States: $400,000
    District Supt District 233: $402,331
    District Supt District 219: $411,511

    Illinois Loop: Salaries and Pensions

    District 214, Elk Grove Village, IL:

    Name: Drye, Qiana
    Salary: $95,884
    Position: High School Teacher
    Full/Part Time: Fulltime
    Percent Time Employed: 100%
    Assignment: U.S. History (Grades 9-12 Only)
    Years Teaching: 12
    Degree: Master's
    School Name: Prospect High School
    District Name: Township HSD 214


    Name: Eccles, Zachary
    Salary: $58,969
    Position: High School Teacher
    Full/Part Time: Fulltime
    Percent Time Employed: 100%
    Assignment: Algebra
    Years Teaching: 3
    Degree: Baccalaureate
    School Name: Elk Grove High School
    District Name: Township HSD 214

    Name: Drapatsky, Melissa
    Salary: $101,723
    Position: High School Teacher
    Full/Part Time: Fulltime
    Percent Time Employed: 100%
    Assignment: English (Grades 9-12 Only)
    Years Teaching: 12
    Degree: Master's
    School Name: John Hersey High School
    District Name: Township HSD 214

    Name: Jones, Daniel
    Salary: $111,097
    Position: High School Teacher
    Full/Part Time: Fulltime
    Percent Time Employed: 100%
    Assignment: Algebra
    Years Teaching: 17
    Degree: Master's
    School Name: Rolling Meadows High School
    District Name: Township HSD 214

    Name: Kalkounos, Effie
    Salary: $83,994
    Position: High School Teacher
    Full/Part Time: Fulltime
    Percent Time Employed: 100%
    Assignment: French
    Years Teaching: 7
    Degree: Master's
    School Name: Elk Grove High School
    District Name: Township HSD 214

    Name: Larson, Mary
    Salary: $125,467
    Position: High School Teacher
    Full/Part Time: Fulltime
    Percent Time Employed: 100%
    Assignment: English (Grades 9-12 Only)
    Years Teaching: 26
    Degree: Master's
    School Name: Elk Grove High School
    District Name: Township HSD 214

    http://www.familytaxpayers.org/salary.php
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  4. #534
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,669

    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Of course not silly you...nothing is valued by the conservatives...anyway you can screw the working class is just perfect...contracts are only good if they like the contract...then its a good contract
    What contract allows any taxpayer (those that provide the funding for) a say in this "fair" salary/benefit negotiation with the union? Please do not say OUR elected officials, that rely heavily on campaign cash "donated" by the gov't employee unions, as you only like their decisions SOME of the time. As long as the gov't "special" folks get "good" deals, then all is right with you, yet when the political winds blow against them, you ONLY THEN squeal "foul" and start all sorts of ranting about worker (not taxpayer) "rights"; of course, you support "rights" only on ONE side of the bargaining table. ;-)
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-11-12 at 11:03 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #535
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,669

    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I'm pro-union in recognizing that we would have child labor and sweat shops without them. Yet I'm no fan of public sector unions. These are political jobs usually and paybacks of favors even at the lowest levels. Corporations and Unions have both been guilty of egregious behavior. Unions have driven some industries out of business by high wage, retirement, and healthcare demands. Yet, without the Unions, Corporations have always been evil and self serving. The Corporate charters are about making money, not the public good. The beancounters dream is ten cents an hour labor, no retirement and no healthcare because that is the most profitable scenario and that is what a Corporation is designed to do. That, and provide nice stock dividends to the wealthy with no work required. Like inherited wealth and entitlements and Divine Providence is why they are blessed with the wealth.
    While I agree with much of what you say, I think you skipped over some important points. Corporations, as any private employer, do indeed need to keep labor costs in line, yet they also need smart and productive employees to gain and keep competitve advantage. Unless they are a monopoly, they must pay as good or better than their competition.

    The gov't, however has no such need, as they have no true competition; they must pay only enough to attract and retain a competent work force, they do get (or need) the best, they need (and get) only adequate workers, yet seem to reward them as if they were the best. As an example of "proof" simply look at the personnel turnover rates of gov't employees compared to those in priavte industry; if things are "tight" beacause of wage/benefit competition (and reasonable personnel management) then turnover tends to be much higher, if your are overpaying them (or simply keeping everybody, regardless of job performance), then naturally nobody wants to (or is forced to) leave you, and your turnover is minimal, with most simply plodding along until retirement.

    In private (non-union) industry any poor to modertate performing worker is usually either terminated or has their pay frozen, not so in gov't (or union shops) as "fairness" dictates the ALL get basically the same COLA increases and promotions based mainly on time in service. The military is one glaring exception to this (gov't employee) rule, as merit and personal accomplishment play a much larger role in rank and pay decisions, and carreers (to full retirement) are not nearly as common. The gov't, in general, could learn much from careful examination of the management, and personnel policies, of its military brothers and sisters. ;-)
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-11-12 at 11:40 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #536
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:19 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,000

    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What contract allows any taxpayer (those that provide the funding for) a say in this "fair" salary/benefit negotiation with the union? Please do not say OUR elected officials, that rely heavily on campaign cash "donated" by the gov't employee unions, as you only like their decisions SOME of the time. As long as the gov't "special" folks get "good" deals, then all is right with you, yet when the political winds blow against them, you ONLY THEN squeal "foul" and start all sorts of ranting about worker (not taxpayer) "rights"; of course, you support "rights" only on ONE side of the bargaining table. ;-)
    Could you please answer the question: do you support the honoring of the contracts that have been in place between the legally constituted representatives of the American people and the people contracted to work for them - having fulfilled and met their obligations over thirty or forty years of employment?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #537
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    07-25-17 @ 12:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    5,878

    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    A question for conservatives and libertarians who value contracts -
    Do we as a people honor the contracts we have negotiated regarding retirement benefits that a worker worked for thirty or forty years to obtain as promised?
    This is a very good question that I frequently struggle with. On the one hand IMO we on the ‘right’ fully support contract obligations. But on the other hand if the sustainability of these obligations is questionable is it astute to ignore the need to modify these obligations? Should we commit to fulfilling the overextension of prior Legislative action regardless of the consequences, perceived or actual? There is a precedent of municipalities filing Chapter 9 in which case these prior contract obligations have been drastically modified. It would seem a preemptive action to avoid severe reductions in benefits a wise compromise.

  8. #538
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:19 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    90,000

    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    This is a very good question that I frequently struggle with. On the one hand IMO we on the ‘right’ fully support contract obligations. But on the other hand if the sustainability of these obligations is questionable is it astute to ignore the need to modify these obligations? Should we commit to fulfilling the overextension of prior Legislative action regardless of the consequences, perceived or actual? There is a precedent of municipalities filing Chapter 9 in which case these prior contract obligations have been drastically modified. It would seem a preemptive action to avoid severe reductions in benefits a wise compromise.
    Thank you for a thoughtful answer. It is appreciated.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #539
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Could you please answer the question: do you support the honoring of the contracts that have been in place between the legally constituted representatives of the American people and the people contracted to work for them - having fulfilled and met their obligations over thirty or forty years of employment?
    Contracts will be honored. Contracts are, generally, two or three years long. You seem to think that when a teacher (or other public employee) is hired, the contract that's in place for that 2- or 3-year period should be in place for thirty years. Think about it, Haymarket. That's not the way it works. I think you know that, though.

    Hypothetical: Teacher is hired under a contract promises "X $$" for their pension when they've fulfilled such-and-such. THAT promise is funded yearly. Let's say that same promise is in effect over two or three contracts -- and then changed. The law says that employee is entitled to the funding that was put aside for them during that initial contract. It in NO WAY guarantees that pension amount. Every contract negotiation is a new deal.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  10. #540
    Disappointed Evolutionist
    Catawba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    05-28-13 @ 08:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    27,254

    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •