View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #501
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You very often use the term "parasite" to mean much more than you're espousing here. Don't be shy, 'fess up!

    You have asserted that everyone making under (I believe you latest figure was) $117k is not paying their "fair share". In effect, they are taking money from the government.

    You believe everyone getting any government money at all is a parasite (and various other derogatory terms) and it doesn't matter what their beliefs may be - unless they agree with you 100%.

    Mo...libertarians, conservatives can want whatever it is they want...Theyve had a perfect storm that was perfect for them....They had the conservative supreme court give the rich the right to spend billions to buy elections. They had Nancy Pelosi categorically have 90% of america hating her in the first 6 months she was Speaker and they have the economy that is being continued by the rich and corps purposely not hiring to continue the misery to make Obama lose the election. Even with all that in their favor..Ron Paul still got his 9% and the conservatives wont get another tax cut. Then pendalum in my lifetime has swung back and forth so many times I couldnt name them...but it will swing back again.
    The conservatives can whine, scream and spin on their heads but here is a simple truth and none of them can every provide an answer for it...they avoid it....What do you do with all the people that have no healthcare...what do you do with all the illegal immigrants that are here and are going to come...after all Reagan gave over a million amnesty for cheap labor. What do you do with all the people that cant work. What do you do with all the old people that cant help themselves and never made enough money to save.
    They want to tell us that labor is overpaid..and Walmart is the biggest employer in the USA...A full time walmart dept head does not make enough to pay for health insurance and save for their pension and pay for living expenses and thats a supervisor, all their whining is about...is them trying to get whatever they can. They know social security is not going anywhere nor medicare.
    They do want public unions GONE that is the only thing left that they cannot control...and theyve won a few skirmishs that havent gone all the way through the courts yet..
    There are too many people in this country that never made enough to do what the conservatives want and theres too many people today that cant pay for lifes necessities....what the conservatives want is a pipe dream....they will get a little but nothing near what they want...
    Let me remind them...if obama wins...all bets are off there will be no veto proof majority

  2. #502
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Nobody, and I am sure TD would agree with me here, is condemning anyone who takes it upon themselves to help the poor and less fortunate. The issue is how you go about helping them. If it is with your own time and your own resources, it is an act of virtue. If you steal from others to give alms to the poor you are engaged in vice. The ends do not justify the means.
    It's too bad Thomas Jefferson did not seem to agree with you.
    Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right. The earth is given as a common stock for man to labour and live on. If, for the encouragement of industry we allow it to be appropriated, we must take care that other employment be furnished to those excluded from the appropriation. If we do not the fundamental right to labour the earth returns to the unemployed. It is too soon yet in our country to say that every man who cannot find employment but who can find uncultivated land, shall be at liberty to cultivate it, paying a moderate rent. But it is not too soon to provide by every possible means that as few as possible shall be without a little portion of land. The small landholders are the most precious part of a state.
    https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Lette...tober_28,_1785
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  3. #503
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Are you channeling Lieyawatha Aka Spouting Bull aka Fauxchahontas aks Dizzy Lizzie Warren?
    No, I'm not - at least, not the way you mean it.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  4. #504
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The first district I checked was Astoria CUSD 1. The first seven teachers in the list alphabetically are:

    Arnett, Melissa $15,423
    Bair, Lindy $27,943
    Banwart, Douglas $32,256
    Bastien, Garry $29,530
    Boggs, Bobette $39,977
    Bollinger, Sharenda $26,783
    Cheatum, Kathy $30,807

    So, out of those, only Bobette Boggs makes more than $37k. Boggs is working full time and has 14 years of experience teaching.
    Nice pull. Astoria has a population of 1,200 people. I'm surprised they have a school district. Those salaries do not represent anything even close to average. I can't pull the entire data base into DP -- suffice to say your "average" is incorrect. If it isn't? How about a link from a credible source?
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  5. #505
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You badly need a new updated copy.
    Nope. No where in the Constitution does it explicitly state a "right to vote."
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  6. #506
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    "I want you to pledge to yourselves in this convention to stand as one solid army against the foes of human labor. Think of the thousands who are killed every year and there is no redress for it. We will fight until the mines are made secure and human life valued more than props. Look things in the face. Don't' fear a governor; don't fear anybody. You pay the governor; he has the right to protect you. You are the biggest part of the population in the state. You create its wealth, so I say, "let the fight go on; if nobody else will keep on, I will."
    -- Mother Jones, 1913
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #507
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The Indians?

    I was talking about original ownership so the Indians claims or lack of claims to some of the property has nothing to do with my point.
    "Original ownership"? Exactly how far back in time are we to go to find this "original owner"?

    At some point in time all land was unowned because humans had no concept of real (as in real estate) property beyond the tribe level. At that time society "owned" the land in as much as they defended it from use by others. Individuals had no property rights.

    Later, the King owned the land and for essentially the same reason the tribe in an earlier time had owned the land.

    Later still the King gave land titles to "special people" for their loyalty, cooperation, or maybe just their pedigree - as in being a close relative of the King.


    So, at what point in time would you like to start with this "original ownership" and what makes that point in time particularly special?
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-11-12 at 02:26 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #508
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Could you elaborate on that because I have no idea what you are saying and what it actually has to do with the US Constitution?
    Which part? If it is second it says "who are eighteen years of age or older" which is separating an age group that is acceptable to practice the right. I realize you don't know how these things work but by doing what they just did they are not treating it like a right.

  9. #509
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    "Original ownership"? Exactly how far back in time are we to go to find this "original owner"?

    At some point in time all land was unowned because humans had no concept of real (as in real estate) property beyond the tribe level. At that time society "owned" the land in as much as they defended it from use by others. Individuals had no property rights. Later, the King owned the land and for essentially the same reason the tribe in an earlier time had owned the land. Later still the King gave land titles to "special people" for their loyalty, cooperation, or maybe just their pedigree - as in close relatives of the King.

    So, at what point in time would you like to start with this "original ownership" and what makes that point in time particularly special?
    Any point in time will do fine as it doesn't much matter since the vast majority of land in the US was never claimed or was currently claimed at the time we took it over.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    It's too bad Thomas Jefferson did not seem to agree with you. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Lette...tober_28,_1785
    Its too bad Thomas Jefferson went out of his way to tell everyone to NOT use him as a source.

    Maybe you can listen to him?

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