View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #401
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    LOL. You didn't destroy me on anything. You showed he lied about releasing his notes and then made a huge jump in logic that it made federalist 41 and everything else Madison ever said a lie. Honesty isn't your strong suit, I see.
    No I didn't kiddo. You need to read much, much, more carefully. In response to somebody posting Madison's notes about the convention, I said that the founders agreed not to release the notes, that he released his after everybody else died, and that they were his personal take on what happened at the convention, not like some kind of official record and that of course the founders on the other sides of various issues would have seen things differently.

    To that you started screaming like a crazy person that I was calling Madison a liar and making up all that stuff. Remember? And then I gave you sources backing up everything I said exactly? Remember kiddo?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  2. #402
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No I didn't kiddo. You need to read much, much, more carefully. In response to somebody posting Madison's notes about the convention, I said that the founders agreed not to release the notes, that he released his after everybody else died, and that they were his personal take on what happened at the convention, not like some kind of official record and that of course the founders on the other sides of various issues would have seen things differently.

    To that you started screaming like a crazy person that I was calling Madison a liar and making up all that stuff. Remember? And then I gave you sources backing up everything I said exactly? Remember kiddo?
    I remember it well thank you. You appear to have forgotten why you brought up the notes to begin with. Funny how you forgot we were talking about federalist 41 destroying your ass right before you brought it up.

  3. #403
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I remember it well thank you. You appear to have forgotten why you brought up the notes to begin with. Funny how you forgot we were talking about federalist 41 destroying your ass right before you brought it up.
    Henrin, you need to reel in your arrogance. You are making a fool of yourself. Here is the first post where I talked about the notes:

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by prrriiide View Post
    If you want to know what the founders were thinking, you should read Madison's notes on the Constitutional Convention.
    Actually, a word of warning on that. You should read them, no doubt. BUT, be aware that all the founders agreed at one point not to release any notes or letters or documents explaining the constitution except what had already been released in the federalist papers. They didn't want to muddy the waters with a bunch of conflicting explanations any more than they had to. And, they were of the opinion that it is what the constitution says, not what they intended it to say, that matters. So, they destroyed all the official notes of the convention and made everybody promise not to release any of their own.

    It's easy to think of the founders like they are one amorphous blob. The all looked and dressed the same and many of them sought to present a unified front. But they were actually far more divided than even politicians today. For example, some of them thought that there should be no executive branch at all. Others thought that we should have a king. The idea of having federal courts at all was controversial. Some of them wanted a government that was far more limited than even the government we had under the Articles of Confederation and some wanted a government far more powerful than what we do have.

    Madison waited until all the other major players in the convention were dead, then released his notes. So, take it for what it is. It is not the equivalent of say the official record of floor speeches in Congress, it is more like reading Harry Reid or John Boehner's summary of what they want you to believe happened in Congress last year. Madison, and many others, consistently described the constitution more along the lines of what they wish it said than what actually was agreed on and put into the constitution. How much of that is willful manipulation and how much of it is just seeing the world through rose colored glasses nobody can say, but all the writings of the founders have that tendency and maybe Madison more than most.

    But, all that said, do read them. Madison was brilliant and the founders' writings in general are surprisingly interesting. Madison's Federalist Papers 10 and 51 are also especially good reading. You really need to sit down and parse what he's saying line by line because it is densely packed with fascinating ideas. Just don't take any of it as authoritative by itself.
    Here is your spastic reply to that post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Lol. So he waited until everyone was dead to shove off his lies to the people! Haha, not only is that not accurate considering their release date but complete hackish bull**** with no proof to back it up. You are awesome.

    Hahaha! You are picking out all of his works and calling them lies. It works against me! I must call it a lie! Proof? You? Nah..

    Just go out and call the most brilliant man and father of the constitution a lie. It's so convincing. What is next is Mason is a lier too? What about Jefferson? I bet he is a lier. They all lie! Except here and here and here. Ignore that in order for those lines to not be lies I have to take them completely out of context. Hahaha
    And here is me destroying your spastic post:

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Well, give it another read I guess because, no, that isn't what I said.

    No kiddo. I don't just make things up. His notes were not published until 1840. That is 36 years after his primary ideological rival Alexander Hamilton died. 16 years after Thomas Jefferson died. 11 years after John Jay died. Etc.

    Here, read the introduction to his notes if you like:

    Madison's Notes were not published until about 1840, perhaps to fulfill an early decision by the original convention forbidding disclosure of the proceedings, to which Madison may have felt himself bound while the other participants lived, and it was after all the rest of them had died that he did finally publish them.

    http://www.nhccs.org/dfc-0002.txt
    Maybe you shouldn't fly off the handle calling people liars until you've done a little digging eh?
    Ok kiddo?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  4. #404
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    it is my right to form a union...
    Hmm, I don't recall seeing that in the Constitution.

  5. #405
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No one has given a good reason why they will not. Sooner or later republicans will run out of things to blame on them. God forbid, republicans might actually try to solve problems instead of blaming them on the other guy, but that is probably asking too much.
    my 2 pennies... Unions won't bounce back because it is obvious that they are unnecessary.

    the environment that allowed them to push the lower rungs into some level of prosperity is long gone.... if it ever returns, unions may be necessary once again.
    unions are powerless to do anything about current problems, and they contribute to a fair share of our problems.

    they won their victories long ago for the workers... and they've been living off those victories for decades upon decades.
    when faced with the question of " what have you done for us lately" , the only answers they have is to share with us with those long past victories.

    the American people understand this... they may accept that the freedom of association is important and should be trifled with, but they understand unions are living off of their legend and little more.

    the argument that, in the absence of unions, workers would be relegated to a life of servitude, slavery, poverty and unsafe conditions does not resonate with folks... they see it as the balderdash it is.

  6. #406
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Hmm, I don't recall seeing that in the Constitution.
    it's covered under the 1st amendment..its the right of free association..it's a coupling of freedom of speech, assembly and, redress of grievances.

    if you , for some odd reason, don't buy that... then it's covered by the 9th amendment.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Henrin, you need to reel in your arrogance. You are making a fool of yourself. Here is the first post where I talked about the notes:



    Here is your spastic reply to that post:
    Ignoring that last paragraph and the one right before it and what they mean to the rest I see. I'm a bit done here if you are going to prove my points. You don't really see how you just called him a lier, do you? Or maybe you do, but you are hoping its not apparent to everyone here?

    And here is me destroying your spastic post:

    Ok kiddo?
    You destroyed me there? Lol
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-10-12 at 08:34 PM.

  8. #408
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Viciously attacking people because of their height now. I should say I am shocked. But I do not lie that well.
    The marxist midget has a serious case of napoleonic complex

  9. #409
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    to quote alex trebek, jeopardy host "no, i'm sorry, that is incorrect"...
    how moronic can a post get-I was advocating how the law should be. You obviously didn't even read what I wrote in your eagerness to whine at me. And yes it is my opinion that you have no right to work at my factory and If I want to fire your sorry ass for joining a union that should be my right. Don't like it-don't work there. But the government should have no right to support your silly union and nothing in the constitution properly gave the federal government that power

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    The marxist midget has a serious case of napoleonic complex
    .. and he supports slavery

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