View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #331
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that sounds like Lynard Skynard doing a cover of a Red Hot Chilly Peppers tune
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  2. #332
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Statists, Marxists, socialists, communists, and other tyrants always couch their tyranny in such terms.

    Without the right to own property and laws to establish rules for transfer of the rights to property we are no longer civilized.
    Which is why statist decivilizers hate property rights and do everything in their power to denigrate them. Property rights stand between them and their coveted power over others.

  3. #333
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And you voice those rights through the normal democratic process.
    As was done, thus this thread wondering if a trend has indeed started, as the possibilty to balance budgets partly buy cutting gov't labor costs may spread. ;-)
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #334
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    More baloney. Even worse - its yesterdays baloney that is now on the end of the process.

    Propery rights have been used by those on the far right to oppose lots of things that progressives favored including
    *** a defense of slave ownership
    *** a defense of secession by Southern slave holding states
    *** opposition to Civil Rights legislation in the Sixties
    *** labor rights for the last hundred and more years

    It is a fact of history.

    If libertarians want to apologize for their stand and change it, that would be welcomed.
    you have not asked the person you attacked about his position on slavery, or civil rights... you simply reached deep in your ass and implied he supports slavery based on nothing more than his professed support for property rights.

    your argument is nothing more or less than " supporting property right= supporting slavery"... and for an alleged educator , that is an extremely moronic argument.. an argument that can be demonstrated to apply to you as well, unless of course you are going to sit here and deny property rights do not exist or should not exist.
    basically put, if you own property and you enjoy and support that right to own your property... you, too , support slavery.... that is your own argument throw right back in your face.


    now watch folks, Haymarket will continue with his dishonesty... watch him ,once again, not take responsibility for his dishonest attack like any common adult would... watch him dance, deflect, and juke his way towards rationalizing his lie.

  5. #335
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    OK skippy, then return to the 1950 federal gov't spending as a percentage of GDP, removing ALL of those federal social programs (added since 1950) that redistribute wealth to "the poor" as well. The budget sword cuts both ways. The current mess that passes for a federal "budget" has changed DRASTICALLY since the 1950s, yet you LIKE that part, you just miss the high taxation on those anonymous "rich guys". Being able to pick and choose the tax rates of a particular system must be coupled with the spending rates of that system as well. We now spend 24% of GDP at the federal level, far more than in 1950.
    I covered that rebuttle when I mentioned that the population has grown. The higher the population, the bigger the percentage of those that will at some time require some sort of government services: let's also not forget corporate tax breaks that only add to the deficit. And for the record, the idea of the cost of government services is rather repelling to me: what it shows is the startling reality that the system; that is to say our country and its ethos are not working: teh country is not creating a system whereby the population feeds itself. That was the point that I was making with repsect to the lack of business sense that it takes to lower the taxes / support of our country and its system with respect to 1%. In war; like WWII: (note the tax rate then); everybody fights. We're very close to that kind of "damage" to our country now, only the socializing of the problem is becoming more and more focused on that segment of the population that has no resources: ya' can't buy anything with no money. And you are conviently forgetting that our GDP has shrunk relative to the population, (which I covered also), and with that also comes the shrinking of the value of a dollar. So, you're rebuttle isn't quite adding up.

    I'm coming at this topic with a very "scientific" say, black and white perspective: ya'know; it is or it isn't. What the right wants under these circumstances just doesn't make sense when we consider what's really going on. So, their agenda with respect to the 1% is just BS.
    Last edited by jet57; 06-10-12 at 04:31 PM.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  6. #336
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Viciously attacking people because of their height now. I should say I am shocked. But I do not lie that well.
    yeah, TD is a horrible person for insulting his height... he should be more like you and falsely attack his support for slavery... that's so much better.








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  7. #337
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Lol. So the government has a license to take your property to support them or do you not realize you just said that.
    Of course the government has a license to tax. It's the very first power granted to the Congress in the constitution and it is reaffirmed in the 16th amendment. You already know that of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Like usual you fail to realize the difference between taxes as an idea and the government taking your income in the form of such ideas as the income tax.
    I have no idea what you mean here. Are you saying that you prefer non-income taxes? If so, you're certainly free to hold that preference, but it isn't a widely shared one. Hence the 16th amendment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Tell me again why do you believe the government can take your income with force but other people/organizations can not? Don't worry if you fail to notice there is no difference because after all it is to be expected.
    Well, a country has to either have a government or not. The overwhelming majority of Americans prefer having a government, so that's what we have. If you really don't want to live under a government, you could certainly move to Somalia where they effectively have no government. I don't think you'd actually find that you like it in practice though.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  8. #338
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centinel View Post
    You are right. In fact, it is quite the opposite. If one wishes to acquire another's property, one must offer something in exchange. Such is the nature of civilized society. On the other hand, criminals and the government freeload on others by taking without permission. They are a decivilizing force that must be endured to the extent that they can't be eliminated entirely.
    If you really believe that government isn't offering you anything in exchange and that a government that lacks the power to collect taxes woud be more civilized, then perhaps you would find life in Somalia to be the height of civility. I kinda doubt it though.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  9. #339
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    skwaaaawk.. move to Somalia.. skwaaaawk... move to Somalia...skwaaaaawk... move to Somalia


    anyone wanna give Tea a cracker?

  10. #340
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    skwaaaawk.. move to Somalia.. skwaaaawk... move to Somalia...skwaaaaawk... move to Somalia


    anyone wanna give Tea a cracker?
    So you're saying you don't want a government, but you don't want to think about what life is like without a government either?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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