View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #301
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    sorry chief, if i feel my interests are better met by attempting to band together with a group of like minded people, it is my right to form a union....just as a company attempts to maximize profit, i have every right to attempt to maximize the value i recieve for my labor..
    and the owner of that company should be able to fire you for "banding together"

  2. #302
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and the owner of that company should be able to fire you for "banding together"
    We had that discussion. Your side lost.
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That was a major part of the argument. To deny it was is just a lie.
    Slaves were legitimate property under the laws of that day. We might have been far better off if the parties who wanted to abolish slavery had just purchased and freed the slaves.

  4. #304
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the rich are paying far more actually dollars which means they are paying far more than their fair share. They pay many dollars for each dollar of services they get in return while the bottom 20% are paying pennies for dollars in government services
    Please see my post # 293.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  5. #305
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Why? That is totally absurd. You think we should just pretend the regressive taxes don't exist? Why? Just to intentionally distort our understanding of the tax system? Obviously you understand that's stupid.



    Because, obviously, that makes no sense whatsoever... How could anybody possibly know whether a tax should be more progressive or more flat or whatever without knowing where we stand currently?
    You miss the point and then pretend it doesn't exist. You think that progressive taxes should become even more progressive in order to make the overall system more progressive.

    I realize you don't understand this You have engaged in diversion, evasion and downright obfuscation on this point.

  6. #306
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Ya'know; I have to say something here with respect to this "redistribution of wealth" nonsense. It's propoganda, and bad propoganda at that. Raising taxes on the wealthy is the same thing that a company does when they want to cut your pay. Why does a company cut your pay? (This where political ideologies switch places): This country; "the company" can not afford to operate at such a deficit any longer; we're going under!

    Raising taxes on the wealthy is taking their tax rate back up to where it was before Ronald Reagan; which was a rate of 70% or more. Starting with his first year, Reagan cut the taxes of the welathy in this country by some 40% during his term Historical Top Tax Rate

    During this country's peak production years: the 1950s, when the standard of living was the highest in the world; for the middle class in particular, the tax rate of the wealthy in this country was a steady 91 & 92%. As the source shows, the tax rate for the rich goes into a steady decline from then on. As the middle class began to disappear, the rate of the 1% under Nixon . . . starts todrops exponentially, and in the course of only one generation, it drops to 35%.

    We've had recession after recession since then, and under modern conservative / Libertarian economics, the 1% didn't do anything to "save the country". In fact, they sent money out of this country to increase returns and actract more money. With the money they made, we should all be on easy street by now, right? I man; we were all working for it! But, "the 1% create all the jobs, right? . . . As the middle class has taken hit after hit, and the population goes up and up, and the services required to manage a country of 300 million steadliy goes up; the taxes of the brilliant and "super powered" 1% should go [i]down?? Nahh, I don't think that makes sense: it's not good business. The 1% takes advantage of and qualifies for any the services of federal government provides; up to and including military protection: that's happened a couple of times as I recall . . . So, why is it some sort of "redistribution" to demand that they pull their own weight? remembering of course that although their tax rate is currently 35%, the 1% have access to lawyers and loopholes and write offs that ensure that they don't pay 35%.

    So, I think that the whole "1% creates all the jobs and this is just wealth redistribution, (as though it were some sort of socialist concept), is just BS. Reality says otherwise.
    OK skippy, then return to the 1950 federal gov't spending as a percentage of GDP, removing ALL of those federal social programs (added since 1950) that redistribute wealth to "the poor" as well. The budget sword cuts both ways. The current mess that passes for a federal "budget" has changed DRASTICALLY since the 1950s, yet you LIKE that part, you just miss the high taxation on those anonymous "rich guys". Being able to pick and choose the tax rates of a particular system must be coupled with the spending rates of that system as well. We now spend 24% of GDP at the federal level, far more than in 1950.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-10-12 at 03:28 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #307
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Slaves were legitimate property under the laws of that day. We might have been far better off if the parties who wanted to abolish slavery had just purchased and freed the slaves.
    An interesting idea. Sadly, it falls into the category of Coulda Shoulda Woulda.
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It had a great deal more to do with the quality of life.
    To each his own. The leaches of society do well in California. The productive move on with their lives. Every year it gets worse there. Every year those who can move do. Those who have things that tie them to the area suffer. It was the same in NAZI Germany in 1936-37. The ones who tarried a bit ended up paying a very heavy price.

    When I lived there every day there were stories of small companies moving out of LA to Nevada. I suspect it is still true today.

  9. #309
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    But, in the past, this was a practice...And if the conservatives fully take over this November, expect the past to return...
    Quite the horrible thought....
    be afraid, be very afraid. You might have to pay for your own food and shelter.

  10. #310
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Baloney. For some reason, forces on the far right always seem to side with property over people. That was true on slavery and it is true today on labor rights.
    Statists, Marxists, socialists, communists, and other tyrants always couch their tyranny in such terms.

    Without the right to own property and laws to establish rules for transfer of the rights to property we are no longer civilized.
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 06-10-12 at 03:42 PM.

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