View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
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  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #291
    Sage

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    I'm not interested in your rationalization for why you were being dishonest in implying he supports slavery.

    you should apologize to him , as your attack was unjustified and dishonest.
    More baloney. Even worse - its yesterdays baloney that is now on the end of the process.

    Propery rights have been used by those on the far right to oppose lots of things that progressives favored including
    *** a defense of slave ownership
    *** a defense of secession by Southern slave holding states
    *** opposition to Civil Rights legislation in the Sixties
    *** labor rights for the last hundred and more years

    It is a fact of history.

    If libertarians want to apologize for their stand and change it, that would be welcomed.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  2. #292
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    ahh yes, i forgot, you enjoy paying more taxes,being subject to overreaching government regulation, and having the Democratic Party in control of peoples lives... yes, I would suppose California would be a better fit for you.

    the waves in Alabama do suck though....
    Aha!!!! That must explain why Alabama has seven times the population of California?
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  3. #293
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    ]Great. Then everyone is roughly paying the same percentage of their income for the functioning of government. So the rich are paying their fair share after all. Thanks for pointing that out.
    Ya'know; I have to say something here with respect to this "redistribution of wealth" nonsense. It's propoganda, and bad propoganda at that. Raising taxes on the wealthy is the same thing that a company does when they want to cut your pay. Why does a company cut your pay? (This where political ideologies switch places): This country; "the company" can not afford to operate at such a deficit any longer; we're going under!

    Raising taxes on the wealthy is taking their tax rate back up to where it was before Ronald Reagan; which was a rate of 70% or more. Starting with his first year, Reagan cut the taxes of the welathy in this country by some 40% during his term Historical Top Tax Rate

    During this country's peak production years: the 1950s, when the standard of living was the highest in the world; for the middle class in particular, the tax rate of the wealthy in this country was a steady 91 & 92%. As the source shows, the tax rate for the rich goes into a steady decline from then on. As the middle class began to disappear, the rate of the 1% under Nixon . . . starts todrops exponentially, and in the course of only one generation, it drops to 35%.

    We've had recession after recession since then, and under modern conservative / Libertarian economics, the 1% didn't do anything to "save the country". In fact, they sent money out of this country to increase returns and actract more money. With the money they made, we should all be on easy street by now, right? I man; we were all working for it! But, "the 1% create all the jobs, right? . . . As the middle class has taken hit after hit, and the population goes up and up, and the services required to manage a country of 300 million steadliy goes up; the taxes of the brilliant and "super powered" 1% should go [i]down?? Nahh, I don't think that makes sense: it's not good business. The 1% takes advantage of and qualifies for any the services of federal government provides; up to and including military protection: that's happened a couple of times as I recall . . . So, why is it some sort of "redistribution" to demand that they pull their own weight? remembering of course that although their tax rate is currently 35%, the 1% have access to lawyers and loopholes and write offs that ensure that they don't pay 35%.

    So, I think that the whole "1% creates all the jobs and this is just wealth redistribution, (as though it were some sort of socialist concept), is just BS. Reality says otherwise.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  4. #294
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    More baloney. Even worse - its yesterdays baloney that is now on the end of the process.

    Propery rights have been used by those on the far right to oppose lots of things that progressives favored including
    *** a defense of slave ownership
    *** a defense of secession by Southern slave holding states
    *** opposition to Civil Rights legislation in the Sixties
    *** labor rights for the last hundred and more years

    It is a fact of history.

    If libertarians want to apologize for their stand and change it, that would be welcomed.
    Everything on your list is off topic except for "labor rights". Your idea and my idea on "labor rights" differ a lot. If 2% of the people choose to work for the gov't and just over half of them want a union 1%+x, then you assert they have a right to pay a politician in need of campaign cash in exchange for an increase in pay and benefits in a contract. Once the vast majority decide that past contract was a bad idea, and elect a new politician, the new politician is somehow not allowed to change that deal in any way except to increase pay and benefits of the last politician? That is insane. No "right" except to FORCE all gov't workers to pay dues to the existing union as a condition of employment was taken, the rest was 'negotiated' by the "boss" as a take it or leave it deal, just like the last contract offered by the union and accepted by the "boss". Rights of the majority must be respected as well. You or any other citizen have no right to an ever increasing amount of public funding, that the majority do not possess to freeze or reduce that amount of public funding if they so choose. If you doubt the ability of the gov't to back out of a contract or deal, simply visit a native American tribe or look at your own social security "information".
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-10-12 at 03:16 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #295
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Everything on your list is off topic except for "labor rights". Your idea and my idea on "labor rights" differ a lot.
    It is right and proper to point out the truth: that the continued use of "property rights" by those on the right of the political continuum is a time honored tactic they have been employing for the last two centuries.

    If you find that off topic - that indeed is one of the things we differ alot about.

    I do not understand your posting about past contracts and majorities. Who exactly are you talking about in it?

    Anytime a majority of workers in a union shop want out - there is a legal procedure for them to do so. Its part of the law. The rights of the majority are very much respected.

    http://www.unionfacts.com/article/un...fy-your-union/
    Last edited by haymarket; 06-10-12 at 03:21 PM.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I have been to California many times.
    I have been to Alabama once.

    There are obvious reasons why.
    Such as? Perehaps you are the unproductive sort. You would be welcomed in California. And maybe a little less in Alabama.

  7. #297
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I have no doubt every slave owner in pre civil war America would stand proudly and give you an ovation.
    Is it true you were a teacher? Were you in a public school system?

  8. #298
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    ]Great. Then everyone is roughly paying the same percentage of their income for the functioning of government. So the rich are paying their fair share after all. Thanks for pointing that out.
    the rich are paying far more actually dollars which means they are paying far more than their fair share. They pay many dollars for each dollar of services they get in return while the bottom 20% are paying pennies for dollars in government services

  9. #299
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Is it true you were a teacher? Were you in a public school system?
    Why are you asking personal questions?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  10. #300
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the rich are paying far more actually dollars which means they are paying far more than their fair share. They pay many dollars for each dollar of services they get in return while the bottom 20% are paying pennies for dollars in government services
    This is why the term FAIR SHARE is meaningless and should be trashed and smashed, crushed and flushed. It is something nobody can agree upon.

    So lets get rid of it in the interest of moving the discussion along past self imosed belief systems.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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