View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #21
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    It's not force: it's democratic process when voting for representation.
    Oh is it now. SEIU Collects Union Dues from Medicaid Recipients

  2. #22
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    If - it were democratically elected as a reuirement, then you would be right; but . . .
    that doesn't connect. If you are arguing that the reason for coercion is that non-unionized employees will benefit from unionized employees, then you are arguing that benefits flowing from actions that others take with or without their will can be charged to their account.

  3. #23
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I believe that the country benefits from Conservative governance. Ergo, all citizens should be forced to donate money to conservative candidates for political office. Yes?
    Beliefs are irrelevant to what I'm saying. I'm talking about facts. It is a fact that a teacher is a free rider if they get their class size lowered because of union negotiations and yet doesn't pay union dues. That is a measurable fact.

  4. #24
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Beliefs are irrelevant to what I'm saying. I'm talking about facts. It is a fact that a teacher is a free rider if they get their class size lowered because of union negotiations and yet doesn't pay union dues. That is a measurable fact.


    No, it's not. It is a belief. One could just as easily make the argument that without public union restrictions, merit pay would allow non-unionized teachers to earn more. Similarly, one could argue that without Unions' shifting compensation to the back end via retirement and healthcare benefits, that non-unionized teachers (many of whom may want to only work for a few years) would benefit more from being able to negotiate individually and shift their compensation to the pay end and away from the benefits.

  5. #25
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post


    No, it's not. It is a belief. One could just as easily make the argument that without public union restrictions, merit pay would allow non-unionized teachers to earn more. Similarly, one could argue that without Unions' shifting compensation to the back end via retirement and healthcare benefits, that non-unionized teachers (many of whom may want to only work for a few years) would benefit more from being able to negotiate individually and shift their compensation to the pay end and away from the benefits.
    No, it's really not a belief. You don't seem to understand this basic concept, so let me try to explain it in a simpler way.

    1. Union negotiates a deal so that every school has a security guard.
    2. Every school has a security guard because of the union.
    3. The union was able to negotiate that deal because of teachers who paid union dues.
    4. Teachers who did not pay union dues benefit from the action of an organization they did not contribute to - they are free riders.

    This is super simple cause and effect stuff. This has nothing to do with "one could easily argue" type things. This is about facts. This is about people getting benefits that they did not pay for.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 06-08-12 at 09:57 PM.

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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I believe that the country benefits from Conservative governance. Ergo, all citizens should be forced to donate money to conservative candidates for political office. Yes?
    strike one....bad analogy

  7. #27
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You realize that is also an argument for allowing employers to ban unions? If the workers do not like the conditions of their employment... they always have a choice to go elsewhere.
    mmmmm no it is not.....strike two

  8. #28
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Lately we have seen Republican and Democrat (though, oddly, only Republicans make news with it) Governors work to save their states from fiscal ruin by curtailing the Public Unions, either in finances or in power. Have the last two years marked the beginning of the end for the Public Sector Union, and will they go the way of the Private Sector Union?
    I have never seen a legitimate argument for public service unions. even FDR opposed them

  9. #29
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    you are free to work anywhere you wish....if you don't like the terms of that employment, no one is forcing you to take a job...move on to the next one.
    people should have the right to unionize in private sectors. The owner of business should have the absolute right to fire anyone who belongs to a union though. The government should play no role in protecting one from the other

  10. #30
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I did some searching on that story, all I found was right-wing media on that headline. I looked further and found the real story: Union dues can no longer be withheld from Michigan home health care workers | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

    (chuckle) Nice try.
    “The people do not want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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