View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #241
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    from Teamosil

    Fundamentally TD, you just are not on the same team as the American people.
    If you put those words on the side of a mountain in 250 feet high letters lit at nighttime, you still could not give it proper attention.

    Well said!!!!
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  2. #242
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and that is the point you have been ignoring all along. Trying to balance FICA, state sales taxes, gasoline taxes, cigarette taxes, hotel taxes, property taxes which are not progressive or are only semi-progressive by making the FIT more progressive is dishonest.
    Why? That is totally absurd. You think we should just pretend the regressive taxes don't exist? Why? Just to intentionally distort our understanding of the tax system? Obviously you understand that's stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why cannot you get it through your head that taxes have to be evaluated on their individual merit
    Because, obviously, that makes no sense whatsoever... How could anybody possibly know whether a tax should be more progressive or more flat or whatever without knowing where we stand currently?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

  3. #243
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    The purpose of the tax system is to fund the government. You want the tax system to redistribute wealth from those who have more than you do to, well, you. Robbing Peter to pay haymarket is haymarket stealing form peter. Your years as an educator should help you make this obvious link. So, what you want is a government that engages in a criminal enterprise on your behalf. If people on the left would just admit that, I might havd a bit more respect for you.

    There is no reason I can see for a free society to embrace a Marxist tax system. You like welfare state? Move to Europe. You can help hasten their collapse, not contribute to ours.

    Who made you the gatekeeper of fairness?
    What garbage. How is any person working for the government and providing a service to the American people engaged in a criminal enterprise? That is just the sort of wildly irresponsible, hyperbolic over-the-top radical extremist nonsense that poisons the libertarian ideology.

    And as far as FAIRNESS goes - I have come to the conclusion that there NEVER will be any agreement upon what that means. Lets trash it because it is a rubric that can never be properly applied. Flush it today.

    We should be talking about a level of taxation that is APPROPRIATE.
    Last edited by haymarket; 06-10-12 at 12:00 PM.
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  4. #244
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Comfort Food View Post
    The problem with taxing the rich is that even if you took all of their wealth, 100% of it, it would still not pay for the expenditures of our government and would destroy our economy. Our current progressive tax system allows half of all Americans to pay no income tax or receive a refund on taxes they did not pay. I am in favor of a progressive tax structure, but it seems you are attempting to make a point that isn't true. I say attempting because I've read your past couple posts waiting for an actual point to be made, but it never happened. It's just banter.
    i don't believe anyone has called for taking all the wealth of the rich....

  5. #245
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    i don't believe anyone has called for taking all the wealth of the rich....
    Of course nobody has called for that. But it ruins the three card montie game of the far right for you to point it out.
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  6. #246
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenn View Post
    Anytime I have had an issue to discuss with employers, all I did was go in and discuss those with them. I have found them open to talking with me, believe it or not! In my way of thinking, Unions are simply mafia-like thugs who bring threats to the table.
    sure, they will talk to you, they may even smile and nod at you, tell you they understand, and that they will look into whatever issue you have.....they say that at least, any action on the other hand is rare, because you are an individual, with nothing backing you up. as for unions, obviously, you know not what you talk about.

  7. #247
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    sorry chief, if i feel my interests are better met by attempting to band together with a group of like minded people, it is my right to form a union....just as a company attempts to maximize profit, i have every right to attempt to maximize the value i recieve for my labor..
    I have no problem with people forming unions, that is their right. I am simply pointing out that the employer has rights as well. One of my rights as an employer is to decide who will and who will not work for me. If you have a right to unionize, I have the right to can you for doing so.

  8. #248
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    I have no problem with people forming unions, that is their right. I am simply pointing out that the employer has rights as well. One of my rights as an employer is to decide who will and who will not work for me. If you have a right to unionize, I have the right to can you for doing so.
    What you describe is the classic clash of rights. Thankfully, we have a system in place which decides what they happens when the rights of one individual - the employer - clash with the rights of hundreds or thousands of others - the employees.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #249
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenn View Post
    Anytime I have had an issue to discuss with employers, all I did was go in and discuss those with them. I have found them open to talking with me, believe it or not! In my way of thinking, Unions are simply mafia-like thugs who bring threats to the table.
    How employers deal with their employees varies from place to place. Don't make the mistake (which you already seem to have done) of assuming that your experience is everyone's experience. Maybe you don't need a union because you have great employers who take everything you say seriously and treat you well. Many other people don't have that experience and therefore, need unions. Your story has absolutely zero affect on their reality.

  10. #250
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    That is simply false.If you want to be a public school teacher, police officer, fire fighter or some other public sector worker with a union then you must join a union.So please do not sit there at your computer and lie your ass off about it being a choice.



    Because I did not vote to join a union nor is it any of the union's business what an employer pays an individual employee. That is why I should be allowed to say no thanks.
    you always have a choice james, always, no one is holding a gun to your head, no one is forcing you to work in a union shop, as i stated, you can always find another job in a non union shop, so yes, you have a choice....and no free riders james, you want what my dues paid to negotiate for , join the union, don't expect to get freebies.

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