View Poll Results: Last two years beginning of a downward slide for Public Sector Unions?

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, their power has waxed and now it shall wane.

    44 60.27%
  • Unions will respond and their power will grow.

    14 19.18%
  • It depends on November.

    15 20.55%
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Thread: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

  1. #231
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    This study of ALL TAXES paid by ALL AMERICANS to ALL LEVELS of government paints a very different picture to the skewed and inaccurate narrative that Turtle has been pushing.


    http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2009.pdf


    We have been through this before folks.

    and more data from tax day 2011 which supports the same conclusions

    http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2011.pdf
    ]Great. Then everyone is roughly paying the same percentage of their income for the functioning of government. So the rich are paying their fair share after all. Thanks for pointing that out.

  2. #232
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    ]Great. Then everyone is roughly paying the same percentage of their income for the functioning of government. So the rich are paying their fair share after all. Thanks for pointing that out.
    You are being disingenuous. If the rich are indeed paying the same overall percentage of total income, that is a failure of our tax system.

    It takes a certain amount of basic dollars just to keep body and soul together. That reality leaves the wealthy with a far higher percentage of their income which is NOT used for basic living expenses but which is highly discretionary. The entire idea of progressive taxation takes this reality strongly into consideration. You apparently do not.

    To refuse to do that is the opposite of a fair share.
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  3. #233
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    all the people police have saved? LOL

    Your silly stories are just that. Nothing is more transparent than those who suck at the public teat wanting others to supply more milk


    Walker proved lots of us are tiring of the little piggies squealing for more and more milk paid for by those of us who aren't dependent on the government hog

    None of the pigs at the trough make a dime without the 99% there is no more pigs without the 99%....no big pig banks without all the little people paying their exhorbitant fees....the 1% pigs take 99% of everything from the 99% then they want more....its all going to come to an end...and it will start if romney doent get elected...
    Soon the private sector working morons that have been duped by the pigs into being AFRAID to fight for what they should have...will wake up...

  4. #234
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    The only pigs at the trough there are in this country are the politicians at the local,state and national level who spend like drunken sailors...refuse to be fiscally responsible...and think only of their next election and how they're going to win it at all costs. But ya'll just keep on arguing about the rich not paying their fair share and clamor for them to pay more. It doesn't make any difference HOW much any of us pay. Our politicians are the greedy pigs who will always overspend and demand more.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  5. #235
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You are being disingenuous. If the rich are indeed paying the same overall percentage of total income, that is a failure of our tax system.
    The purpose of the tax system is to fund the government. You want the tax system to redistribute wealth from those who have more than you do to, well, you. Robbing Peter to pay haymarket is haymarket stealing form peter. Your years as an educator should help you make this obvious link. So, what you want is a government that engages in a criminal enterprise on your behalf. If people on the left would just admit that, I might havd a bit more respect for you.

    It takes a certain amount of basic dollars just to keep body and soul together. That reality leaves the wealthy with a far higher percentage of their income which is NOT used for basic living expenses but which is highly discretionary. The entire idea of progressive taxation takes this reality strongly into consideration. You apparently do not.
    There is no reason I can see for a free society to embrace a Marxist tax system. You like welfare state? Move to Europe. You can help hasten their collapse, not contribute to ours.

    To refuse to do that is the opposite of a fair share.
    Who made you the gatekeeper of fairness?

  6. #236
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    It's not a choice in some places because it's not a choice to benefit from what unions negotiate.
    An employer should be free to pay thier workers what ever wages and benefits they want to their employees regardless of who negotiated those wages and benefits. If an employer wants to pay a new worker the same benefits and wages that union workers have then that is the business of the employer and employee, not the employee,union and employer.
    If you teach in a public school where unions negotiate better security, then you are a free rider if you don't pay union dues. That's ridiculous.
    It is ridiculous to force people to join a union if they don't want to join a union. If someone wants to take the job and not join a union,take the job and and join the union or take a job but join a different union then that should be their choice.

    Die hard union supporters seem to forget that unions exist to benefit the workers not the union,union supporters and what ever candidates whom the union supports. So it doesn't matter if someone is in a union or not.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  7. #237
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by randel View Post
    as i stated earlier, no one is 'forced' to do anything....you always have a choice on where to work, if you don't like working in a union shop, there are plenty of places out there that are non-union...
    That is simply false.If you want to be a public school teacher, police officer, fire fighter or some other public sector worker with a union then you must join a union.So please do not sit there at your computer and lie your ass off about it being a choice.

    why should you have the right to walk into a place that is a union shop, where the employees voted for unionization, and say 'no thanks' to joining the union, but still be able to enjoy the benefits of that union's presence?
    Because I did not vote to join a union nor is it any of the union's business what an employer pays an individual employee. That is why I should be allowed to say no thanks.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  8. #238
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Then if you want to work for a union shop go to where one already exists and dont impose one on my company.
    sorry chief, if i feel my interests are better met by attempting to band together with a group of like minded people, it is my right to form a union....just as a company attempts to maximize profit, i have every right to attempt to maximize the value i recieve for my labor..

  9. #239
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You really don't have a ****ing clue, do you? Unions don't employ people, companies do.
    so...you have anything constructive to add? if not, move on.

  10. #240
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    Re: Beginning of the End for Public Unions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is a silly argument as well, since there is but ONE gov't. Too allow a minority (gov't workers) to dictate labor policy to the majority (the taxpayer/voters) is insane. Why should we, the people, be forced to cede labor negotiating power to the few among us that CHOOSE to work in the gov't jobs that we offer? If 2% of the public works for the gov't, then barely over 1% get to be the sole deciders of whether a gov't union can come to exist. In non right-to-work states that means that ALL gov't employees must pay union dues, and ALL taxpayers must honor any contract made with them. If the gov't has the "right" to alter SS retirement ages AFTER that citizen has been required to pay SS taxation (yet has not yet attained the benefit age), we should certainly be able to alter a "labor contract" that assigns retirement benfits for ANY gov't worker that has not yet retired. It is time to stop the madness of treating ONLY gov't employees, not the citizens that must support them trough taxation, as "super citizens" with special union contract rights that are not applicable to ALL citizens. After all of the screaming in WI about how "unfair" the teachers were treated one would expect a mass exodus of these highly qualified and educated folks, yet NONE (as far as I know) quit and the applictaions for these positions are still backed up with hundreds waiting for an opening.
    the only way you 'cede' anything, is if you don't get off your ass and vote, if you don't hold your representatives accountable...

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